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Old 11-25-2017, 08:52 AM
 
4,360 posts, read 4,208,961 times
Reputation: 5810

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroWord View Post
There's nothing wrong with these really rough schools other than they're being made rough by a lot of the students that go there. Take out those students and those schools would be just fine.

You guys keep avoiding the main issue here, which is those schools are made terrible by the disruptive and gangsta students with absent parents. Stop blaming the rest of society for crappy parenting.
A lot of the problems go back to the administration. We had a superintendent who rewrote the code of conduct to remove many of the most persistent violations and then tied the principals' hands on the execution of the offenses which remained. The school was as dangerous as I have seen it, and the conditions were bad district-wide. The school district slid into a morass that resulted in the most drastic interventions available, and now things are turning around. Our principal is doing a better job of establishing and maintaining order, and the building is mostly quiet and orderly. The district's shortage of teachers is more difficult to address, but a few bad teachers are gone, there just aren't any new good teachers to replace them.

The problem of rough students is best dealt with by a strong principal and a supportive administration. Our parents are just as criminal as the ones whose children you went to school with. Our rough students are too. It takes due process to get the students out, but our new principal is doing a good job of getting them out or suspending them until they get enough suspensions to be transferred to the alternative school.

I'm not avoiding the main issue, just facing the fact that it is the one which is most intractable. I would institute optional preschool education beginning at age two or three to help ensure that children whose parents are problematic would at least be in an environment where they are exposed to high-quality language experiences while learning to work in a group, follow directions, and eat healthy food, all factors which are frequently absent in home care among the very poor.

I'm glad that your parents were involved in your education despite your having to attend rough schools. Did you at least have teachers who were able to help you get a quality education?
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:57 AM
 
4,360 posts, read 4,208,961 times
Reputation: 5810
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Here’s another tidbit. In my culture, we have a saying, education is the responsibility of the father, not the teacher. This was of course said in a time when most women were uneducated.

It illustrates the real problem: education can’t stop at schools.
Apparently your culture doesn't have or value the public education such as what we instituted in the United States over 100 years ago. Clearly the problem that you and I have in our discussion is that you are arguing from the point of view of someone whose values are inconsistent with the society in which you live.

Why are you here? Just to make a lot of money? If so, then you've come to the right place.

There is likely no point in our having a further discussion. If you don't understand the value a person has who gives his life for a cause, then we haven't enough common ground for reasoned discourse.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:57 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,514,527 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Its good you recognize that at least the same is true with education. What you want would be highly detrimental to this country. Look at all the countries that are better than the US they all have mandatory education that is rigorous. The countries that don't have public education are third world countries.
I came from a third world country and I had way better high school education than most Americans. Most elementary school students in my country know more math and science than most Americans.

How is that a money problem as you try to elude?
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,926,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
I came from a third world country and I had way better high school education than most Americans.
What country did you come from?
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,768 posts, read 26,060,801 times
Reputation: 33896
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroWord View Post
There's nothing wrong with these really rough schools other than they're being made rough by a lot of the students that go there. Take out those students and those schools would be just fine. You guys keep avoiding the main issue here, which is those schools are made terrible by the disruptive and gangsta students with absent parents. Stop blaming the rest of society for crappy parenting.
"gangsta" students? You know darned well that's just another code word for blacks., just like "they spend all their money on $200 tennis shoes and iphones". That nonsense goes all the way back to Reagan who invented the black welfare meme with his stories about the "welfare queen" .

This shouldn't be about race, it should be about poverty. What exacerbates the problem is that in many urban areas entire school districts have a preponderance of poor black or latino kids, so they become an easy target to wag your finger at and blame those kids and their parents for the failure of their schools. But if you take a closer look at what is happening, our schools are being segregated by income level, and the commonality for failing schools isn't race, it's poverty.

I live in Northern California and the school boundary map appears to be gerrymandered but not by race, by income level. In areas with lower rent apartments the kids all attend one of three failing schools. There are what appear to be deliberate carve outs for areas with expensive single family homes. One of those schools ranks in the bottom 4% of all 5650 California public schools. The racial breakdown is White 40%, Hispanic 29% Black 19% other ethnicities 12%. The only thing that most of those kids have in common is that almost 90% get free lunches. By contrast a school fewer than 2 miles away is in the top 10% of California schools but only around 20% of kids qualify for free lunches.

If you really want all poor kids succeed we should have a federal law that gives any child attending a failing school the opportunity to transfer to a different school with their transportation subsidized or provided by the district, and provide income based preschool and after school programs for working parents. That's school choice, not giving the rich $5,000 vouchers to subsidize sending little Ethan & Heather to private schools.

Here's an interesting article on the subject:

WHITES ONLY: SCHOOL SEGREGATION IS BACK, FROM BIRMINGHAM TO SAN FRANCISCO
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:00 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,514,527 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
Apparently your culture doesn't have or value the public education such as what we instituted in the United States over 100 years ago. Clearly the problem that you and I have in our discussion is that you are arguing from the point of view of someone whose values are inconsistent with the society in which you live.

Why are you here? Just to make a lot of money? If so, then you've come to the right place.

There is likely no point in our having a further discussion. If you don't understand the value a person has who gives his life for a cause, then we haven't enough common ground for reasoned discourse.
LOL. Every school I went to was a public school. There wasn’t any private school in my old country. Not even allowed.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:05 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,377,821 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
Every taxpayer within a taxing authority pays the same rate. In a school district we pay the same rate on a $100,000 house as a million dollar house. Does the electric company, the water company the phone company give better services to the owners of the million dollar house because they pay more dollars? IMO, it is the same with schools.

As our culture decided, if the rich are not satisfied with public schools they can create private schools for their kids.

That's not how it works in Michigan and that's not how it works in most states.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,516,779 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
What country did you come from?
He never says, which is why I think he's being disingenuous
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:10 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,377,821 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
A rising tide lifts all boats. I should be amazed that some CD posters think just because they have money and pay more taxes entitles them to better stuff. Schools should be like toll roads.

The thing this thread conveys to me is that there are as many ways to pay for public education as there are states. And that the soft bigotry of low expectation also comes from teachers.

If I were running a school district, I'd get really good pre school teachers and start school at age 3. I would also institute the program started in Missouri 25 years ago, Parents as Teachers. If the problem is lack of parental involvement, fix that. It might take 2 generations, but in the long haul we will all be better for it.

IMO, there have always been some unfit parents. The education establishment has been successful in blaming their failure to educate their kids on bad parenting. It is not impossible to teach children whose parents are not involved. The first thing to teach is how to behave at school.

A rising tide lifts all RENTS. Retired and disabled people living on fixed incomes do not rise with the tide.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,926,049 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
He never says, which is why I think he's being disingenuous
Good to know
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