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Old 02-17-2018, 02:04 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,469,557 times
Reputation: 2963

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Doesn't the gun shop associate/owner stop to think before he hands over the application to a teenager interested in buying an assault rifle?
Yes. Mine reported Omar Mateen to the FBI...
Pulse shooting still happened.

This miscreant piece of chit was reported to the FBI for having credible threats online... the local news down here is reporting police were called to his house 23 times in the last year...

Laws work when enforced... and agencies which are entrusted to investigate crimes actually investigate...

 
Old 02-17-2018, 02:08 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 2,269,374 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
So let me get this straight...
You believe distasteful marketing by Sig Sauer and Bushmaster is responsible?
I wonder what your opinion of Viagra ads are
(Lightening the tone here relax)



Nowhere did I say this. Again, please deal with what I say. The ads were mentioned as an answer to your question of what type of mindset I saw in those I have disdain for.


Quote:
You believe someone who finds their firearm "cool and badass" to be at fault?
Tell me what you think of folks who find Ferrari and Lamborghini cars to be intriguing, or Mustang, Camaro, Corvette aficionados...
(Which by the way vehicles killed more people)

I find anyone who views their right to have their toys as more important than the rights of kids to not get shot as partially at fault for helping prevent any sort of control of the weapons these guys seem to choose.

Quote:
A gun shop owner whom reports that those that buy them do so to feel like soldiers?
I am a member of a few gun forums, I even write for some blogs in spare time...
I'll let ya know, these "range rambos" "tacticool bros" are very few and far between...
Even still, they are not the ones committing nor promoting such nefarious acts...



They are not as uncommon as you pretend. I would even say they may be the majority, although neither they nor other gun cultists would want to admit this. Most ones I have met have been enamored with how cool and badass their newest gun was, and gun ads don't use this sort of angle to target their audience if they didn't know what reached them. The Bushmaster campaign was successful precisely because Bushmaster spent money to know their customer base and how to reach them.














Quote:
But you keep saying NRA and AR15...

Its not an either/or equation. The shooter is a fault for pulling the trigger. The NRA is at fault for helping make it easy for the nutters to get the guns. These are not mutually exclusive things.











Quote:
It's a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. If not for the NRA you would not own a weapon, I would not own a weapon, nobody except for those intent on breaking laws, would own a weapon.

Newsflash.The NRA didn't exist until the late 1800's. We have always had the right to own guns, and there has never been a serious attempt to take them away. In fact, at one time the NRA supported sensible gun control, until the nutters took over .









Quote:
We have a constitution, we have due process.

So does every other civilized country that manages to send their kids to school without the need for bulletproof accessories and armed guards.


Try again on why we are the only non 3rd world country that cant manage it.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 02:09 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,040 posts, read 60,074,533 times
Reputation: 60604
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Doesn't the gun shop associate/owner stop to think before he hands over the application to a teenager interested in buying an assault rifle?
Have you ever seen the application (Form 4473)? Even before it gets to that the potential buyer has to show a government issued ID.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-for...cord-revisions

While the dealer may decline the sale, typically if he suspects that it's a straw purchase, nothing precludes an adult 18 or older from buying the firearm if he is approved by the NICS background check.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 02:15 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 2,269,374 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
That would require the FBI to follow through with substantial threats to life and schools...



Very true. There isn't only one party to blame, but its only the gun cultists who want to pretend everyone except them blames only the gun. The FBI screwed up big time for sure.



Quote:
You are conflating firearms, their capacity, with someone's ability.

It's simple logic.

My girlfriend has the same 100 round magazines Paddock used.
Yet, hasn't gone to Vegas and performed a heinous attack on concert goers.
Banning those magazines would accomplish?

And she's had them long before I was in the picture...

We were supposed to go to the range today she got called in at 9am...
Ohwell. Always tomorrow.

To claim that having high capacity magazines coupled with the ability to shoot over and over repeatedly as fast as your finger can pull the trigger isn't a deadly advantage over a bolt or lever action that holds 6 or 7 round ,and has to be recocked and reaimed after every trigger pull is simply to be full of BS.

Last edited by wallflash; 02-17-2018 at 02:27 PM..
 
Old 02-17-2018, 02:21 PM
 
17,190 posts, read 12,041,169 times
Reputation: 17118
This upcoming generation growing up exposed to this will likely implement gun control once all the "you can pry my guns from my cold dead hands" old fogies die off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
The fact is, my rights are not subject to your will.
The will of the people can change the law.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 02:22 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,469,557 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Nowhere did I say this. Again, please deal with what I say. The ads were mentioned as an answer to your question of what type of mindset I saw in those I have disdain for.
So again, you are admitting you have an issue with peaceable law abiding citizens carrying out their constitutional rights to keep and bear arms they so choose? Because you don't like their opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
I find anyone who views their right to have their toys as more important than the rights of kids to not get shot as partially at fault for helping prevent any sort of control of the weapons these guys seem to choose.
Nobody has suggested 1 or the other. You seem to have a difficult time conflating firearms, AR15 in particular, with heinous individuals and the NRA and it's members...

If you look here and on other forums... every gun owner is disgusted with the inept performance of gun free zones. We can protect cash with armed guards in Loomis trucks. We can't protect children with armed guards. Why?
Venturing into tinfoil hat conspiracy territory, perhaps to exploit tragedy for political motivation?
Seems plausible to keep a failed policy in place...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
They are not as uncommon as you pretend. I would even say they may be the majority, although neither they nor other gun cultists would want to admit this. Most ones I have met have been enamored with how cool and badass their newest gun was, and gun ads don't use this sort of angle to target their audience if they didn't know what reached them. The Bushmaster campaign was successful precisely because Bushmaster spent money to know their customer base and how to reach them.
Even still, they are law abiding citizens. You don't like their opinion... you want to circumvent their constitutional rights because of their opinion... because you are having a difficult time differentiating heinous individuals and law abiding citizens who happen to like something you don't like, or have high regards for something you show disdain for...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Its not an either/or equation.
So you agree we can protect our children and communities, and have access to the implements we so choose to own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
The shooter is a fault for pulling the trigger. The NRA is at fault for helping make it easy for the nutters to get the guns. These are not mutually exclusive things.
When you bought your firearms. You filled out a 4473 yes? You had a NICS check performed yes?
You can thank the NRA for those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Newsflash.The NRA didn't exist until the late 1800's. We have always had the right to own guns, and there has never been a serious attempt to take them away. In fact, at one time the NRA supported sensible gun control, until the nutters took over.
NFA 1934.
Gun control act 1968.
Hughes amendment 1986.
All have limited and curtailed rights to an extent.

I'm going to ask you 1. Last. Time.
Define "gun nutters"
and research some history of the NRA while you're at it too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
So does every other civilized country that manages to send their kids to school without the need for bulletproof accessories and armed guards.
Thank your law makers for making schools gun free zones and removing the natural right to self defense within 1000 feet of a school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Try again on why we are the only non 3rd world country that cant manage it.
Youre advocating for the entire constitution to be overturned overnight to get what you want...
You would need a violation of 1st-8th amendments to get what you want...
 
Old 02-17-2018, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Arizona
7,466 posts, read 4,297,160 times
Reputation: 6106
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Geez, I have to tell you it just tears me up that you don't want to believe that people can own guns and not be gun cultists. Perhaps you believe this is a fake FB page with fake gun owners.

https://www.facebook.com/Gun-Owners-...8371624581877/

Or that this is a fake gun owner also.

I Am A Gun Owner, And Here's 8 Things I Have To Say About Gun Control

And this must also be a fake gun owner.

https://www.mediaite.com/online/from...t-weapons-ban/

LOL. Get real dude. There are some gun owners with enough maturity to consider others right to remain alive and put aside their childish and immature desire to have their playtoys at any expense , up to and including deaths of innocent children.
No you get real dude.

Not too self righteous now are you? Man, you've got to get over yourself with your high and mighty attitude. Anyone who claims guns are "playtoys" is no real gun owner.

I'm not on facebook and want nothing to do with Zuckerberg or those who subscribe to his service. Anyone can post anything they like anywhere, it's their right under the 1st Amendment. Just as it's my right not to believe them just as I don't believe you. Live with it.

"Gun-Owners-for-Responsible-Gun-Control" Sounds familiar? Almost like Mark Kelly's "Americans for Responsible Solutions". It's probably an off shoot bought and paid for by that organization. He too claims to be a "gun owner too" but doesn't know s**t about gun laws as he would have to lie on From 4473 when trying to buy an AR 15 from a Tucson gun dealer in order to make a straw purchase. If he ever legally bought a gun before he would know that it's a federal crime to lie on that form.

The question is why wasn't he arrested? Big gun control advocate that he is. I imagine that he would demand the same if anyone else pulled such a stunt? A straw purchase is an illegal firearm purchase where the actual buyer of the gun, being unable to pass the required federal background check or desiring to not have his or her name associated with the transaction, uses a proxy buyer who can pass the required background check to purchase the firearm for him/her. It is highly illegal and punishable by a $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison.

As far as I'm concerned all of you so called "gun owners too" are all a bunch of phony self righteous hypocrites. There is nothing you could do or say to make me think any different.

Quote:
Tucson gun store owner cancels Mark Kelly's AR-15 purchase
tucson.com/news/local/tucson-gun-store-owner-cancels...
The owner of a Tucson gun store where Mark Kelly recently purchased an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle canceled the transaction because Kelly did not plan to keep the rifle ...

"Kelly has said he purchased the AR-15 to show how easy it is to buy an assault weapon. He said he planned to turn it in to the Tucson Police Department."
Whether Kelly planned on turning over the weapon is irrelevant. The fact that he wasn't the intended receiver of the firearm is no matter who he planned on turning it over to.

Quote:
"I’m already a member of the Brady Campaign, Everytown for Gun Safety, and will be joining Moms Demand Action."
That's a quote from one of those stupid articles you posted. That hardly sounds like any pro gun organizations to me. At least not one that any real gun owner would belong to. Why don't you just put your money there your mouth is and give up all of your so called guns and post a sign on your front lawn declaring your home a gun free zone? You just think that you're trying to lull real gun owners into complacency by disguising your real intentions hoping to win over a few converts. I've got news for you it ain't gonna' work. We're a helluva' lot smarter than that and can always smell a rat.

Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 02-17-2018 at 02:52 PM..
 
Old 02-17-2018, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
16,961 posts, read 17,264,742 times
Reputation: 30254
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
This upcoming generation growing up exposed to this will likely implement gun control once all the "you can pry my guns from my cold dead hands" old fogies die off.



The will of the people can change the law.
You're correct, only the will of the people can change the 2nd amendment.

However, there's not one politician (Democrat or Republican) that doesn't believe in the 2nd amendment. And I can bet over 95% of Americans believe in the 2nd amendment.

So, gun grabbers are sht of of luck. Sorry.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 02:30 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,469,557 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Very true. There isn't only one party to blame, but its only the gun cultists who want to pretend everyone except them blames only the gun. The FBI screwed up big time for sure.

This doesn't even address anything I said. Nevertheless, to claim that having high capacity magazines coupled with the ability to shoot over and over repeatedly as fast as your finger can pull the trigger isn't a deadly advantage over a bolt or lever action that holds 6 or 7 round ,and has to be recocked and reaimed after every trigger pull is simply to be full of BS.
Considering the majority of those bolt action rifles coupled with a nefarious and skilled shooter are far more deadly than a 22 caliber....

I'm not sure if you've ever shot a deer with a 303 Enfield or 30-06 or even a 308.
I have.

If a person were to be on the receiving end, especially a child the chances of surviving the kinetic energy those rounds produce, are 0 especially inside 100 yards.

Even a 30-30...
I used to shoot old cars destined for the scrap yard. A 30-30 at 100 feet from a Marlin lever action will blow through the drivers exterior and interior door panel, blow through the seat, and exit out the passenger side door of a Buick Century at 100 feet distance...

Are you positive that you want to reduce weapons to full powered hunting cartridges used for big game hunting and to promote marksmanship skills beyond 100 yards? That would be far deadlier than an AR15.
 
Old 02-17-2018, 02:31 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 2,269,374 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker View Post
No you get real dude.

Not too self righteous now are you?

I'm not on facebook and want nothing to do with Zuckerberg or those who subscribe to his service. Anyone can post anything they like anywhere, it's their right under the 1st Amendment. Just as it's my right not to believe them just as I don't believe you. Live with it.

"Gun-Owners-for-Responsible-Gun-Control" Sounds familiar? Almost like Mark Kelly's "Americans for Responsible Solutions". It's probably an off shoot bought and paid for by that organization. He too claims to be a gun owner too but doesn't know s**t about gun laws as he would have to lie on From 4473 when trying to buy an AR 15 from a Tucson gun dealer in order to make a straw purchase. If he ever legally bought a gun before he would know that it's a federal crime to lie on that form.

The question is why wasn't he arrested? Big gun control advocate that he is. I imagine that he would demand the same if anyone else pulled such a stunt. A straw purchase is an illegal firearm purchase where the actual buyer of the gun, being unable to pass the required federal background check or desiring to not have his or her name associated with the transaction, uses a proxy buyer who can pass the required background check to purchase the firearm for him/her. It is highly illegal and punishable by a $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison.

As far as I'm concerned all of you so called "gun owners too" are all a bunch of phony self righteous hypocrites. There is nothing you could do or say to make me think any different.



Whether Kelly planned on turning over the weapon is irrelevant. The fact that he wasn't the original purchaser is no matter who he planned on turning it over to.



Im not on FB either, but it took all of about 5 seconds to find evidence of responsible gun owners who understand the need for some control , which was the point lost on you.


Whether you like or not the fact that some gun owners aren't a bunch of selfish children and can understand the problems their rights cause is totally irrelevant to me. The next deer I shoot will be just as dead regardless of whether you believe me to be a "real" gun owner or not , although to be honest I am hoping to get good enough to get my deer and hogs with my bow from now on. Much more challenging.


And if you truly think I am simply disguising my true intentions to win some converts you aren't 1/10th as smart as you wish to claim.

Last edited by wallflash; 02-17-2018 at 03:00 PM..
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