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Pensions. Do those who have pensions expect to collect them?
And retirement accounts. Or do people not expect to see increasing values in their retirement accounts? If that's the case, why invest at all? Just put cash under the mattress and let it depreciate.
If you have either one, exactly. Votes. Get it?
What are you even talking about? Stop wasting everyone's time. Stay on topic. Not the one you created, but the one from the OP.
Do you support raising taxes on 21 million families to increase corporate profits while simultaneously giving large tax breaks to the most wealthy?
Answer that! Stop asking obvious questions , while ignoring the elephant in the room.
Most public pensions are already being funded by taxpayers, not investments. Now you want more? From the struggling middle class? Corporations have had a decade of record profits. Due to outsourcing of jobs and an 18% effective corporate tax rate. No corporation worth investing in is paying the top tax rate. Now you want poor people to pay for additional tax cuts? Get a grip.
So, you derive a straw man about "collecting pensions". And where profits come from? Oh, I get it. You are old and retired and spend your days fretting about your pension and Social Security. If so, you chose to back the wrong horse long ago with the GOP!
You do not think that giving the wealthiest among us lower tax rates and eliminating the estate tax will enhance the transfer of wealth?
I disagree with taxing US corporations more than their competition too. But this plan uses debt and the middle class to cover the cost and as and added "bonus" gives wealthy individuals the greatest benefit.
BTW, when you factor in deductions and other expenditures the US corporate tax rate is about 18%, middle of the pack.
If raising taxes on up to 21 million middle class households is such a great plan, why not raise taxes on the very wealthy too?
I tend to agree with you on the Estate Tax and yes, that will more concentrate wealth.
This plan won't raise taxes on the middle class. I agree that we should focus on paying down the debt.
You can rail against corporate profits all you want, but many people will NOT vote to voluntarily reduce their pensions and/or retirement accounts.
See, no one is railing about "corporate profits". Absolutely not me. I am questioning why the middle class should be contributing to additional tax cuts for corporations that are doing just fine! I am questioning why 21 million household should pay more while the wealthy should get big cuts?
You are ignoring this in favor of putting words in other people's mouths.
And no one is voting to "reduce their pensions or retirement accounts". Where do you get this stuff?
Last edited by shaker281; 11-16-2017 at 02:45 AM..
The way that the GOP tax cut is structured the middle class will be financing tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations that are already seeing record profits. Wages are not going up and will not go up.
Meanwhile Trump and his cronies continue to distract their minions with talk about Hillary Clinton while they pick the middle class pockets. The corporate tax cuts will be permanent, the individuals tax cuts "temporary". The money will flow to CEO bonuses and wealthy shareholders and the debt will continue to rise.
“As a CEO (and in prior roles) I was involved in hiring and determining salaries for 1000s of people over 25 years. From real world experience I can tell you that tax rates literally never came up in any discussion about hiring or pay levels.â€
LOL? seriously, now why would anyone interviewing for a job talk to you about tax rates? That's the dumbest comment of the year. The absolute dumbest!
Here's the funny part, when most people get their paychecks the first thing they look at is the bottom line, most times it's the only thing they look at.
In case you didn't see the graph I'm going to show it again so you can see who owns what.
The top 10% richest owns over 90% of all the financial wealth:
Ok so your saying you're willing to hurt corporate profits, 401k and pensions to get the rich?
See, no one is railing about "corporate profits". Absolutely not me. I am questioning why the middle class should be contributing to additional tax cuts for corporations that are doing just fine! I am questioning why 21 million household should pay more while the wealthy should get big cuts?
You are ignoring this in favor of putting words in other people's mouths.
And no one is"voting to "reduce their pensions or retirement accounts". Where do you get this stuff?
The middle class is invested in "corporate" stocks in their 401k's and if the companies they are invested in does well those stocks will either appreciate or provide dividend income for your retirement years. If they don't do well it will effect the value of your stock and dividends. Hurt corporations and you hurt your 401k and pensions. So essentially yes, when your so hot after corporations because they're owned by rich people, then you are hurting yourself. Supporting politicians who want to take more from them with higher taxes will hurt your retirement accounts. Where the hell do you think the money comes from?
I tend to agree with you on the Estate Tax and yes, that will more concentrate wealth.
This plan won't raise taxes on the middle class. I agree that we should focus on paying down the debt.
It wont raise my taxes, but I know people whose taxes will go up. I expect a windfall if this passes, at least until the next recession. Even then, a well timed move from equities to debt will work in one's favor.People who have multiple exemptions, high mortgages and live in high tax states will pay more.
Anyone who itemizes above $16,000 will likely see an increase. The new law would seek to eliminate state, local and property tax and the new standard deduction will not cover that.
People with several exemptions will see an increase. The new law eliminates completely the $4050 personal exemption. A family of four will lose $16,200 in write offs. While they currently get $16,200 (exemptions) + $12,600 (standard deduction) for a total of $28,800. They will now get the new standard deduction of $24,000. An immediate loss of $4,800 in write offs.
This is why many GOP lawmakers from high tax states oppose it.
See, no one is railing about "corporate profits". Absolutely not me. I am questioning why the middle class should be contributing to additional tax cuts for corporations that are doing just fine!
Do the math. Workers/retirees WON'T vote for cuts in their pensions or retirement accounts.
The middle class is invested in "corporate stocks" which is what will provide income for their retirement years. Hurt corporations and you hurt your 401k and pensions. So essentially yes, when your so hot after corporations because they're owned by rich people, then you are supporting politicians who will hurt your retirement accounts. Where the hell do you think the money comes from?
No, a portion of the upper middle class is invested in stocks. In retirement the smart one's will move heavily to fixed income. The vast majority has a well documented lack of investments or savings of any kind.
Quote me where I am attacking corporations. They are doing quite well and by proxy so am I. I notice that no one seems to want to comment on why wealthy individuals are getting big cuts and the middle class either increases and tiny cuts. Care to be the first?
Trying to paint cohesive social and tax policy as an attack on corporations is lame at best. Don't be a dupe.
No one is asking to "hurt corporations", just not make the middle class pay for their increased profits. Or at least spread the corporate cuts evenly across all economic stratum.
Are you hurting GM or Ford when you don't pay more for your next car?
Meanwhile the upper class gets a big cut. You support that? Or just blindly going along with the GOP while they promise more trickle down?
Listen, if this goes through I will likely see a 6 figure increase in profits in just the first year. But, please do not whine about my huge house and expensive cars. You voted to make that happen.
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