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Old 11-21-2017, 08:19 AM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,161,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Is breaking our immigration laws an offense that allows legal detainment?
By itself on the state level? No. By the feds? Yes, determined on the situation. Not even the feds can go up to someone and say "show me your papers".

Like it or not, civil liberties apply to every single person in this country. It is only through due process that those rights can be removed.

 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,959 posts, read 22,131,406 times
Reputation: 13793
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
That's not the point, a state can set it own drinking age or a state/city can choose to not enforce immigration laws. In both cases the federal government can twist their arm by holding up federal funding.
The US Congress needs to pass a law giving the president the power to respond appropriately to states and/or local governments which actively undermine federal powers defined within the US Constitution.
 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:21 AM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,161,983 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
But the feds not having the resources to hold someone, doesnt mean the states can not arrest them and turn them over to the feds for being an illegal. They can, legally..
The state has to have a valid reason to arrest them to start with. Where do you suppose the feds are going to hold all these people after they are turned over? Are you willing to pay higher taxes to provide a place to hold all these people or are tax cuts more important?
 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:21 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,293,301 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Thats not entirely true either.. states are not required to enforce federal laws. They can if they wish, but thats up to the individual states to decide.

The word I'm disagreeing with is the "MUST" comply.. thats entirely false.. CAN would be far more accurate.
Oh, okay ...so States can decide not to recognize same sex marriage? True or not true?

States can refuse to recognize immigration laws passed by Congress? True or not true?

Can a State refuse to recognize a drivers license issued by another State to a person not a U.S. citizen?

Do you see the trouble we get into with this argument?
 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:22 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,595,663 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
By itself on the state level? No. By the feds? Yes, determined on the situation. Not even the feds can go up to someone and say "show me your papers".

Like it or not, civil liberties apply to every single person in this country. It is only through due process that those rights can be removed.
So, the government has the right to detain them; therefore, they also have the right to have states hold them for that detainment.

It's no different than one state holding a person for another state who is seeking extradition.
 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:22 AM
 
13,899 posts, read 6,439,195 times
Reputation: 6960
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Thats not entirely true either.. states are not required to enforce federal laws. They can if they wish, but thats up to the individual states to decide.

The word I'm disagreeing with is the "MUST" comply.. thats entirely false.. CAN would be far more accurate.
If states are not required to enforce federal law, which I believe they really are, can a state make an automatic machine gun legal with no background check? I'm serious about that. If states can basically nullify Federal law, they should be able to do this then right? Can they also nullify federal tax laws? Can they say that none of their citizens have to pay federal tax? What about Federal discrimination laws? If states are not bound to enforce Federal law, why do states get into trouble from the Feds if they break Federal discrimination laws? It's an all or nothing thing, not just some laws.
 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,959 posts, read 22,131,406 times
Reputation: 13793
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
By itself on the state level? No. By the feds? Yes, determined on the situation. Not even the feds can go up to someone and say "show me your papers".

Like it or not, civil liberties apply to every single person in this country. It is only through due process that those rights can be removed.
Try boarding or exiting an airplane on an international flight, or try entering a state capital building, or the White House, without a state or federal agent saying "show me your papers."
 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:23 AM
 
17,400 posts, read 11,966,236 times
Reputation: 16152
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Sanctuary cities are a violation of the Constitution, because these cities (and State of CA) are knowingly harboring illegal aliens, which is a violation of Federal Law. The States created the Federal Government and delegated to it the power to create uniform rules for immigration and naturalization. These cities are, in effect, creating their own rules by allowing anyone who has entered the country illegally to remain, without fear of arrest. They refuse to cooperate with Federal authorities in enforcing immigration law.

For that reason, in my view, they should not be receiving taxpayer money; money paid by every taxpayer in the country who are all affected by their irresponsibility. They are given drivers licenses in CA, which also allows them to vote, and they are even given access to government benefits, which is another violation of Federal Law. I have cited the relevant laws in many previous posts on this subject.

The solution to this, it seems ...according to what the court said ...would be for all future funding bills, to make grants contingent upon whether or not a city has declared itself a "Sanctuary City," and specifically barring those cities from participating in any grant programs. The court said that these funds have already been granted by Congress, and therefor cannot be withdrawn (I disagree, but that's what they have said).
Exactly. Hilarious that the judge said this: "No one is above the law, including the president." But that's exactly what sanctuary cities feel.
 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:23 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,293,301 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
If a state arrests someone for actually breaking a law (not a civil matter) they can hold someone for that crime and make sure who they are holding. They can contact the Feds to try and help determine who some one is. They have an interest in doing that.

They can't hold people over a civil matter. If they arrest someone for a legit offense and determine through the feds that the person is here illegally (which they only can do through federal courts) and the feds decide to come get the person, the feds can.

The feds have NO interest in holding all of these people because for one, they have no where to do that. The costs would be enormous. They want the states to take on these costs and some states are saying no.

If a state does not want to undergo the costs of incarcerating someone for who knows how long over a minor offense, they do not have to.
Are you a lawyer or a law enforcement officer?
 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:24 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,019,001 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
You say this but you refuse to condemn those who can do that.
Do not try offer my opinion where none has been given. Clearly our legislators need to step up to the plate on this issue as well.
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