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A rude comment is just rude. It's entirely possible to compliment a woman on her looks without being rude about it. I'm an old guy, years past my stud muffin days, but still get smiles from young women when I compliment their looks. Just last week I met with one of my financial people. She was in her 20s when I met her about 10 years ago. We had a direct and productive meeting. As I was leaving, I took her hand, looked into her eyes, and said, "You are better looking now than you were when we met 10 years ago. You wear your maturity well." I'm sure the smile I got was genuine. Different phrasing could easily have been offensive. If your opening phrase is, "Nice ****," you are just a jerk.
Larry, you might be surprised. According to an article I read in The Economist yesterday, More than 1/3 of American young adults think it's "always/usually" sexual harassment if a man who is not a woman's romantic partner compliments her looks.
Article:
"Over-friendly, or sexual harassment? It depends partly on whom you ask"
"Gussied up" must mean something different to you than it does to me. To me, gussied up means dressed to the 9s, or really dressed up. It has nothing to do with scanty attire, which, if anything, is gussied down.
Yes, if a woman tears around in revealing clothes clearly meant to objectify her sexuality, she will likely get what she's asking for. Mind you, I'm not talking about rape, or even pouncing and grabbing. But she will get whistles and catcalls. If that offends her, put on more clothes. Seems simple enough, even for the dimwitted.
Or, we could start calling the people who DO the whistling and catcalling dimwitted, because they're the ones who don't seem to realize that they don't HAVE to share their "thoughts" every time they see a body part.
History of the Gender Based Role Play ….. is as old as the reality of human beings.
As to society: men and women... society has long objectified women and that was standard process, and woman have long participated in being objectified, this was true under the Confederate Ideals and Antebellum system, as well as around the globe in many cultures and societies.
In Early American, when "women were not considered as person", they also were considered as being 'servants to man" and passive to the allowance of men to dominate them as person and sexually, as she was claimed to have a duty of providing him sex, and in that cycle of duty was the structure where she was designated to play the "temptress", and the master mistress of allure in how she present and the conduct of manner about herself, to even promote and in some cases to pretend to be virginal naive, as well as submit herself to any manner that would make her available to men, including pandering to him as if her sole concern of desire was only in existence by the arousal from or by him, and to entice him to indulge her. That was and in many ways is the societal mentality promoted in so much of society this very day and time. Truth and fact is... her desire and arousal, is hers, and it does not take a provocation from a man for it to become enhanced and motivated to express itself. Therefore, this fictitious assumption as if her "her sexual proclivities are only activated by the initiation of assertions by a man" is one of the biggest fallacies that make much of the madness within the world of male and female sexual realism.
That concept is so insidiously promoted, until society even tries to pretend that a prostitute does not have a desire, as if she is only functioning as a empty vessel, when fact is, she is as capable as any other human being, of enjoying sex as well as desiring it and wanting it, she is just not covert about the fact that she has an ulterior motive, to be paid. And the ulterior motives will drive her to engage even when she is not desiring and not wanting it for passion or pleasure, but merely for the ulterior benefit of money. Thus so... people need to think "in perspective" not based on pretentious assumptions.
"Therefore" this "Role Play"
has a long history and it ... comes from a long history... as far back as when women could not work, including the period where men claimed the constitution designated him by their concepts ( as if only white men were considered as "a person" in civic society. ..) thus so, women as individuals were not considered as "a person", nor was minorities, they had no rights, could not own property, could not vote, and could not earn their own living. it even goes back in ancient times in various cultures, of the long history of human life as to "Role Play and Role Inferences".
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Therefore, as "woman" and Individual, she had to rely on "attracting a man to make advances unto her, and she was relegated to play the coy role as if to fend it off, but no more than it takes to keep him in pursuit. That was her base of societal power, as well as the measure of if she was deemed "worthy of being a wife" based on how she put her coy denials to usage, but the end game was to be seductive and submit, if she expected to gain opportunity and or a mate. If she denied and at some point did not submit, she was labeled, and if she was upfront and asserted her desire first, she was considered unfit. (It's the craziest thing ever, the game based delusions of it all).
It's still the dominant theme in movies, commercials and the general manner that many still groom into society.
Only now..when women earn money and have careers they no longer want to play the game. But the disturbing part is that some women still play the game, and suddenly society expects men to discern the different, when the formats are much the same. Today, people do things, and only later when they re-think it, they claim abuse, when at the time it was in some cases people following historical format and the role play was of the same elements as was the history that promoted it.
Thus so, when one looks back... they fail to look at their won participatory part, as well as they fail to look at their role and responsibility. Some of these women, went back 'multiple times" to the same situation. As if to "barter" in a manner to gain opportunity, accessibility or options. It was not like they are "mindless beings unable to think"... it is a matter of their eyes focused on an "objective" and submitting to the activities within the arena to get to those objectives. However distasteful, it was the nature and manner of the process, that was a mutual participatory activity.
There are stories of countless women... who did not engage in such type of barter within their integrity, nor with their body, or their mind, they simply saw that it was a situation requesting a "trade off" and they simply stepped away and found other means to pursue their goals without subjecting herself to the game of barter.
Society has long promoted a system where Men in Position of Power was promoted as a "good catch", and in that scenario... it was also promoted for woman to make the game to pursue that catch, some did it by acts of playing child like giddy, some as semi exhibitionist, and some as the sex symbol sex kitten posturing. It still happens in this day and time... because "Sex Sells".... and "Sex Opens Doors" and "Sex makes avenues of Accessibility". The whole system of the fashion industry is predicated upon those premises. of Allure, Seductive Alluring Enticements, and much else, this goes all the way into the basis of what is make up and why it is utilized. To the point of "high heels" and why it was created.
Make up was to darken around the eyes, to give the look of one in the throes of sexual arousal, as was the blusher, to give the cheeks the appearance of being flush, as is the nature of what happens when and during sexual arousal, as well as lipstick is to give the lips the moisture and glowing look as does the natural of lips when in the highly aroused state. High heels is and was designed to give woman a fragile look as in a form of submissiveness in movement, while at the same time, enhancing how the butt cheeks rise and fall as they walk.
None of these thing came to being by accident. They are "contrived"... because "sex sells", and "sex catches" by attractions to bring attention, for the benefit of "allure" in the pursuit to attract a mating partner.
Thus so... if there is a change, it has to be a "cultural change" and that is going to be difficult, because not only are women not going to give up the tools and elements that are interlinked with allure and the concept of beauty and the concept of how beauty is utilized to attract.. Men are not going to change from wanting to see these same things of which he too is groomed to seek as means to discern and choose a mate.
It also is not going to change... in the concept of "women seeking the dominant male", that exist in the animal kingdom as well as in the human spectrum of life.
Now... what is of matter, is "People Respecting People" inclusive with all these tactical elements, that are connected to the elements of societal constructs of "mating factors and how allure is infused within the gender's and how the attractions of sexual provocativeness is intertwined in the psyche of general society.
The other factor that is of matter, is "men and women" have to become "HONEST" communicators... No more of the women, expecting the man to be the aggressor, and no more of men expecting the woman to be the passive one who submits by non resistance to male asserted desire.
Both are ADULTS..they have to become INDIVIDUALS, who are MAN ENOUGH TO STATE HIS DESIRE, and WOMEN WHO ARE WOMAN ENOUGH TO STATE HER DESIRE... Therefore, they take the game playing out, and communicate as TWO INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBLE BEINGS.
If women think within engaging in general personal interactions she has the right to touch, hug, hold, squeeze and kiss a man, then she has to have the awareness that in general situations she is open to the same from the men she is engaging in general personal interactions
Now... these things are "Elements of Equality".... is society ready to embrace "Equality"...
(Likely Not), because there is benefits by "people" as individuals wanting to "SELECTIVELY" choose when they want to be responsible in terms of equality, and when they want to enchant their ego of being woo'd and won, or pursued because they have wealth, power, stature and title.
The games of "Temp and Tease" is a two party activity... and both and all involved need to be responsible for what and how they temp, and what it can and could result to become, and the same is true with the Tease, as to what it can and could result to become.
It comes down to the simplest thing in life.... HONEST COMMUNICATION between and among people AND They need to be Adult enough to make clear openly their desires to 'engage each other"... leave all the coy gamesmanship out of it... both his and hers..... There is no innocent party in the "games of gamesmanship".
He and She Both always reserve the right to 'say no".... as well as they have the responsibility, not to temp and tease a situation until it becomes driven by the human emotions and human passions.
But the way this craziness is being promoted in the Media is a Travesty for both men and woman... it is promoting nothing more than a madness to a level men and woman can't even be human beings with each other.... without someone throwing up a claim of "harassment".
It is diluting what the term "harassment " means, as well as some of this stuff is diluting what the word "rape" means.
As to peopled with "under age" people... That is a law.... and there is a legal age of consent. That has to be respected and honored.
Equally so, among two underage people, they to need not be groomed to play the temp, tease and allure and entice games with each other as well, and then later claim they were abused by each other.
People have to "sit down and think" how society became what it is... it did not just happen, people made it as it is...
Now, its time to move it to a higher level of intellect, and that requires "Honest Communication" about life, sex, desire, aspiration, wants, needs and every aspect of life and living. Are people capable of that, without resorting to the games of "Gender Role Play" based on historical grooming.
In society today..it is unlikely to see a major change. People still even in marriages, fail to communicate, and fail to be honest and still engage in the gender role play models of the past, even in their bedrooms.
.....during the dating years I was direct and open and honest with women, and told them, "they have as much right to initiate acts of sex, as they think I should be the aggressor. I've told them they have as much right to be the aggressor for and of their desire.
Many women, just can't digest that.... they still want the man to be the aggressor, and want him to read her mind, as if to proceed just because she does not object.. But it does not demonstrate her responsibility to willingly show him that she desires him with the same asserted aggression of expression, that she expects from him. Therefore, "I simply did nothing"... It did not matter of her trying to judge me as less than a man, because she was herself being less than a woman. Because any woman should be responsible enough to verbalize her Desire, the same as she expects a man to verbalize his desire. All that stupidity of claiming it takes the romance out it, is "hogwash" and has set too many men up to be wrongly accused of abuse and even rape.. therefore. Men... if she is not woman enough to verbalize her desire, then let her go find a fool, who will engage her based on some assumption, simply because she did not put up opposition.
Then you will never be caught in some situation of flip flop and her later claiming it was against her will. especially in situations where some may or many not have ulterior motives.
When or if ever will woman, accept the responsibility to be "Equal" in that regards? When she does, it will diminished all this stuff about "harassment" and many other of the things that have become so caught up in "ego" and "power games".... Because there are many women, how take it as a "ego up lift" to be desired, and they take that in some cases as a power trip to "deny" the same asserted desired that she wants for her ego, but she wants the elation from the power to refuse it. People should be aware of such things.
therefore... let your interactions be based on "OPEN COMMUNICATION" and if its not OPEN COMMUNICATION. then it is not worth it in any perspective to deal with any aspect of sex, regardless to how the seductive eyes play games, or the flashing of body parts temp and tease, and the games of allure are played out.
This will then create a situation where "Equality" has to exist. She has to be Equal in Giving What She Expects to Get and Communicating It... and likewise so for the man.... Then no one can claim one abused the other.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 11-21-2017 at 07:00 PM..
I don't like red ties... they attract my attention... so I'm going to follow any man who wears one and make his day miserable by calling him names and accusing him of being a politician. That's the consequence of wearing a red tie, sorry. I'd fully expect people to ridicule me for my actions if I did such a base and invasive thing, so why is it any different for a man to whistle and ogle a woman for what she wears? It's not a legal right to opine on clothing choices. It's very possible to pass by someone even if they're wearing a clown suit and not say anything. Whatever floats yer boat. (Hey, an IT reference.) Seriously, though, the consequences should be reserved for people who encroach upon others' space in a menacing way... not the person who has chosen to clothe themselves a certain way. People have myriad ways of personal expression.
I think you misunderstood what I said to a certain extent. I agree that it's possible to pass someone in a clown suit or skimpy clothes and not say anything. But whether something is said or not, the attention is still there. You can't make people not think something or not look at something. It's a free country.
There's a HUGE difference between just looking at someone you find attractive and encroaching on their space in a menacing way. That behavior crosses the line and is unacceptable. Being able to make that distinction is what separates us from the animals. On that I think we agree.
I do disagree though on your premise that it's "not a legal right to opine on clothing choices". There's no law prohibiting that. People have the right to speak to whomever they please. However, it would become illegal if the person to whom you were speaking asked you to stop and you continued. That would be considered harassment.
Know the woman before commenting on her looks. I myself find it creepy for a stranger to compliment my wife or female friends on their looks.
Depends on the context. I know several people, myself included, who have very unique physical attributes that complete strangers compliment all the time. It used to bother me, but 99.9% of the time it is just normal nice people admiring a physical trait that is relatively rare. The compliments come from both males and females. I could be an ass about it, but I have learned to just graciously say thank you.........even though their compliments don't really mean anything to me, because what they are complimenting is just a spin of the genetic wheel.
Objectifying someone is treating them like an object, something to be just used and/or possessed, rather than a person with her own thoughts, rights, feelings, ideas, motivations, etc.
Presumably a woman who is gussied up still wants to be treated as a person. A pretty person.
Objectifying someone is treating them like an object, something to be just used and/or possessed, rather than a person with her own thoughts, rights, feelings, ideas, motivations, etc.
Presumably a woman who is gussied up still wants to be treated as a person. A pretty person.
Or a virtually naked person wearing skin-tight yoga pants at the supermarket. But don't dare objectify her.
As someone who used to do this, I would say "definitely." I would dress up to look as sexy as possible (in good taste, though). But that was because that is what is valued in young females. Few people covet young women's brains or personalities.
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Seriously, though, the consequences should be reserved for people who encroach upon others' space in a menacing way... not the person who has chosen to clothe themselves a certain way. People have myriad ways of personal expression.
