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Opinion?
The constitution state's the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Infringed is defined. And gun control laws all the way back to the NFA, infringe the right to keep and bear arms.
Is that a yes then?
You know better about what is or is not constitutional than the SCOTUS?
I know this much, my AR10 and M1A .308 mags do not fit into my AR15 Mag Wells and that is what I am referring to. And no it would not be a simple fix. Yes, the AR15 will handle several caliber uppers but not all, then one moves up to the AR10 platform, not that complicated.
Fair enough. The topic somehow shifted from .223 on hogs back to on topic. You are a gun guy so I know you have it down. You stated anything beyond .300 black and there are plenty of calibers bigger that fit the 15.
It comes from listening to people, that know almost nothing about the subject, spout off like they are an expert.
Example: People wanting to ban bicycles on roads calling them all 10 speeds.
People calling everyone that lift weights, roid heads.
People that want to tax the sale of all cars that "look" fast.
People that think all drugs are bad.
People that think they know what the legal age to drink or smoke, while they don't drink or smoke.
So ya, when someone comes out and says "you don't need that" or "they should be banned" just shows a lack of respect and a fear/hatred of something or people not like them. But ya, listening to people talk about football, that have never played the game, is pretty annoying.
BS?
I agree the insults are unnecessary, unproductive, but the insistence that someone who doesn't know all things about guns necessarily means they cannot pass proper judgement about gun control measures? That's just dumb on its face.
What we need to know is what is IMPORTANT with respect to the issue/problem at hand, as previously explained. All this time arguing about unimportant details, complete with all the stupid videos and pictures is in my opinion a sign of immaturity.
Again, you don't need to be a CPA to pass judgement about tax laws, nor a doctor to know what is healthy and what is not, a biker to know what is safe biking practice and what is not..., etc.
You know better about what is or is not constitutional than the SCOTUS?
This would take this argument off topic and I do not wish to go there. I am only using this as an example.
I believe the SCOTUS absolutely got it wrong when they ruled that the government can take land from a land owner and give it to a private company to build a mall.
Yes, I believe that to be highly unconstitutional.
I understand that point, but as I said having at least a working knowledge of firearms would be best before attempting to discuss restricting specific types or outright bans. I am not saying a person needs to be an expert on firearms but to have almost no knowledge of the topic means a person is simply operating on emotions and that is not a good basis for passing laws, especially laws that may effect or violate a persons Constitutional Rights.
Agreed, but without specifics, we're not really saying anything here...
I have read much about guns and the issue of gun control, I own a gun and I have used guns many times (though mostly many years ago). I have made many a comment about what is important to the issue of gun control and what is not. Obviously there are those who may draw conclusions based on poor reason and logic, on both sides of this issue, whether they be expert or not.
Getting people to focus on what matters is no easy trick, but ultimately that's what we call on our elected representatives to do, ideally to develop public policy that works. In the same way, we don't all need to have military experience to judge when we should go to war or why. The POTUS, who is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces doesn't even need to have military experience!
Some people, especially those who love to boast their knowledge of whatever THEY ARE INTO, just can't accept that others can pass judgement about such things too. In some cases others may even be in a better position to pass sound judgement by way of critical thinking rather than a "love" of guns, or love of whatever in question...
Constitutional rights?
There too, anyone here know constitutional law better than the justices of the Supreme Court?
Right..., we've got nothing but "experts" in this forum. What am I thinking?
This would take this argument off topic and I do not wish to go there. I am only using this as an example.
I believe the SCOTUS absolutely got it wrong when they ruled that the government can take land from a land owner and give it to a private company to build a mall.
Yes, I believe that to be highly unconstitutional.
Yes, off topic, and whether you or anyone else believes the SCOTUS got it wrong is of little relevance to me compared to what constitutional law experts think. I was disappointed about the Citizens United decision as well, but at least I understand the legal argument that caused the SCOTUS to rule as it did. When I don't understand, I tend to believe they know better than I do, but that takes some humility that is not common in this forum...
Fair enough. The topic somehow shifted from .223 on hogs back to on topic. You are a gun guy so I know you have it down. You stated anything beyond .300 black and there are plenty of calibers bigger that fit the 15.
Ok, there are a couple that will also fit, how does that saying go, Size Matters
Yes, off topic, and whether you or anyone else believes the SCOTUS got it wrong is of little relevance to me compared to what constitutional law experts think. I was disappointed about the Citizens United decision as well, but at least I understand the legal argument that caused the SCOTUS to rule as it did. When I don't understand, I tend to believe they know better than I do, but that takes some humility that is not common in this forum...
Not all constitutional law experts agreed with the court in siding with the case I presented.
Agreed, but without specifics, we're not really saying anything here...
I have read much about guns and the issue of gun control, I own a gun and I have used guns many times (though mostly many years ago). I have made many a comment about what is important to the issue of gun control and what is not. Obviously there are those who may draw conclusions based on poor reason and logic, on both sides of this issue, whether they be expert or not.
Getting people to focus on what matters is no easy trick, but ultimately that's what we call on our elected representatives to do, ideally to develop public policy that works. In the same way, we don't all need to have military experience to judge when we should go to war or why. The POTUS, who is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces doesn't even need to have military experience!
Some people, especially those who love to boast their knowledge of whatever THEY ARE INTO, just can't accept that others can pass judgement about such things too. In some cases others may even be in a better position to pass sound judgement by way of critical thinking rather than a "love" of guns, or love of whatever in question...
Constitutional rights?
There too, anyone here know constitutional law better than the justices of the Supreme Court?
Right..., we've got nothing but "experts" in this forum. What am I thinking?
Ok, I cannot disagree with that, and never claimed we know it all, none of us do, not even the SC, we are after all simply humans. What we have is a Constitution and Bill of Rights, and yes there are grey areas, though some would disagree, which allows for different rules for every community and State. Thing is there is a difference between discussing the topic on a discussion board between posters and law makers passing laws that are not based on rational or logical reasons but instead on what they think will get them re-elected. It then becomes too important an issue for those involved to have no actual knowledge of the topic they are passing laws regarding Rights. I am fine with the laws as they stand, at least in my State, and feel they need to be enforced, but people living in other States where it is near impossible to own a firearm have a right to say that their Rights have been violated due to the process that makes ownership near impossible or highly expensive. Personally I would prefer that there were one set of rules for all the Nation, then there is no ambiguity and everyone has to abide by the same rules, we are after all 1 Nation.
Why not, they are not criminals and very unlikely to harm anyone other than someone that may attack them. What is the problem?
I've got to sign off now, but before I do, I'd like a crack at answering your question...
The problem is that there are many concerns related to guns in any environment that go beyond what any good citizen may or may not do with their guns, let alone what a bad guy or a loon may do with theirs.
On the one hand, just about anyone can agree we all have a right to protect ourselves. There is the 2A also of course. None of that really needs further argument I don't think. The problem(s), however, remain.
Citizens who lose their weapons. Even law enforcement officials do!
Citizens who THINK they know what they are doing, but don't. Innocents can be hit and killed as a result, accidents DO happen even though no gun enthusiasts will ever call up those facts or statistics.
Law enforcement can't tell good guys with guns from bad guys with guns. This is why the performer at the Route 99 concert said he and his band didn't want to go for their guns, because they were afraid the police would mistake them for the shooter.
People don't want to live like back in the Wild West. Most people want to go about their civilian lives without thinking about guns. This of course means not seeing guns, except maybe in the movies, for entertainment. Something like we don't necessarily want to be hearing about Jesus every time we walk down the street just because someone feels compelled to spread the word. We all just want to go about our thing without other people imposing themselves on us with their thing.
I could go on, but the point is simply to demonstrate the issue involves far more than just what any good citizen with a gun may feel about his need or want to carry. True that finding a good balance in order to protect everyone's rights is not easy, but to overly simplify these issues and concerns is not a good idea if better mutual understanding is the goal.
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