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Old 12-15-2017, 05:48 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 23,855,161 times
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So we were told to suck it up, fight back.....oh that's better than trying to stop people from being mean to each other. Really?

Wow.....
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,711,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
Were there campaigns to end bullying? Were kids told to just deal with it and "man up?" I'm asking in light the whole Keaton controversy, but that's another topic.
In the old family sitcoms bullied boys were taught by dad, older brothers or a kindly uncle how to duck and throw a jab.
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:20 AM
Status: "108 N/A" (set 23 days ago)
 
12,897 posts, read 13,573,641 times
Reputation: 9586
I tried to kill an older bully when I was in middle school. I wasn't afraid to fight him, I was afraid to get kicked out of school for fighting. We got into a fight in my yard and I was tired of him and thought whatever happens to a 12 year old who kills I was ready for it. I wasn't successful but we never got into a fight again. He continued to bully other kids and finally about eight to ten kids jumped him. It was pretty bad. Everybody got a foot in on his head. He wasn't the same after that. I looked him up recently on the State offender’s website and there was his smiling mugshot with a gray beard. He’s been in and out for years.

I would seriously tell a parent who knows their kid is bulling other kids to seek counseling for them. There is something not right about some of these guys. But in my case this kid’s family dynamics was part of the problem. There was a lot of fighting or abuse going on in his house. But that’s how it was dealt with; you would get a bunch people together and beat the hell out of the bully. When I complained to my mother she told me to pick up the biggest thing I could lift and hit him with it. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with issue with my kids because I couldn't tell them what I think works like charm.
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:41 AM
 
Location: New Yawk
9,196 posts, read 7,193,547 times
Reputation: 15313
I remember my Boomer father-in-law telling my son “Real life isn’t like TV or movies. You can stand up to a bully, but just know that he may come back with group of friends.” This is a man who is military-trained in Krav Maga and Systema, but has never lifted his hands in violence against another human being. My Gen-X husband is a big dude; jacked, as in turn-side-ways-to-get-through-the-door jacked. Also has never raised his hands in violence. We’re hoping our children will carry on that tradition of using their brains and their hearts to resolve conflict, not their fists.
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:52 AM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,757,035 times
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Not a boomer but I'm an Xer and I also did not grow up with "bullying campaigns." I was told by my Boomer parents that if a bully tried to bully me or any of my family members that we should jump said bully and kick his/her a$$.

That is what we did.

FWIW my son was bullied when he was in kindergarten. I told him to punch the kid in the stomach so hard that the kid would want to throw up. He punched said kid and the kid stopped bullying him.

I think bullying campaigns are rather ridiculous.

I also believe that cyber bullying is easily stopped amongst little kids in particular if parents stop allowing their little kids (aged birth to 14-15) to go online via tablets, phones, and some video games.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,758,769 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Not a boomer but I'm an Xer and I also did not grow up with "bullying campaigns." I was told by my Boomer parents that if a bully tried to bully me or any of my family members that we should jump said bully and kick his/her a$$.

That is what we did.

FWIW my son was bullied when he was in kindergarten. I told him to punch the kid in the stomach so hard that the kid would want to throw up. He punched said kid and the kid stopped bullying him.

I think bullying campaigns are rather ridiculous.

I also believe that cyber bullying is easily stopped amongst little kids in particular if parents stop allowing their little kids (aged birth to 14-15) to go online via tablets, phones, and some video games.
It sounds easy to prevent them from using the tablets, phones, newer generation gaming systems, etc., but let me tell you, it isnt. I grew up before many of these luxuries that are now needs were around, let alone affordable. I had an Atari (I forget the number) and there wasn't much online activity, well until Sega's Dreamcast in 1999 and morr so Microsoft's Xbox.

My boomer parents only had a personal computer with no internet access from when i was about 7/8 in 1994. These parents let me play Wolfenstein 3-D and I'm not going out trying to kill people thinking they are Nazis or build real life roller coasters from Disney' Coaster that will kill people (thoughit was far easier in the Roller Coaster Tycoon series.) Why, they watched on. They knew my brother and I would play games like Operation Wolf or Hogan's Alley. Why shelter us and not teach us the important lesson of "It is just a game."

Then four years later they got a newer computer that was more internet ready. This was used for school as well as leisure. I cant tell you how many papers whether reports or speeches that ai needed to type up at home to bring into school from 6th grade on, even college (when we had the day of sharing through Dropbox, Google Docs, and other more academic sharing programs.)

Luckily with me, most people in school didn't catch my email so I didn't get caught in a trap on websites or places like AIM or MSNM. Then again, there wasn't MySpace, Twitter, Facebook, etc. until what, 2003-5 depending on the platform. Some kids don't have a knowledge of the web before web 2.0 because they weren't on it until after.

Ironically by the time my boomer parents had me, they never encouraged fighting, even if it was defense. I got yelled out a few times that I did in all honesty. I even white lied to my father who would be home early if I had a detention. Why I feared him. He was known to fight back as a kid, but it was a different time. Back then educators COULD touch children for better or worse. Back then parents wouldn't sure if the bully lost a tooth. That changed sometime when late Gen-X was in school because I'm a millennial in nearly any definition you can find. It is debated by many researchers if 1980 or 1984 kids were the first millenials.

Basically, my ready to defend himself dad had to remind me even into my senior year of high school wht I got bullied by these two idiots and their friend who didn't try hard enough to stop it, not to do anything even though the school couldn't. Why, it wouldn't look good on transcripts to Havre a possible arrest. Back when boomers were in high school, you would maybe get detention and that is all.
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,527,508 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
In the US, the going-in position of the plaintiff in the civil suit will be "All suffering requires restitution. My child suffered, here is the doctor bill to prove it, your child caused it, you have no doctor bills, you must make restitution."

"Self-Defense" is a defense under criminal statutes--there are no criminal statutes being discussed in a civil suit. There is no "self defense" in a civil suit.

The defense is going to argue the equability of the defendant's actions (but if the bully lost a tooth and the victim didn't, that's going to be a hard argument) and hope that sways the court, and with luck there will be successful precedents to produce.


That's a reason why there is no suing for personal injury in New Zealand, under civil law -if the court isn't concerned with justice, then it has no place imposing financial punishments on people on the receiving end of criminal action.
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,527,508 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
SSelf-defense laws in America are largely equitable. So basically I can't do anything to you unless I have a reasonable threat of imminent danger. A non-physical bully has no reason to be hit because there is none.If a bully is physical and tries to hurt you, then you can only hurt him equitably. IE: No broken bones if they attempt a ropeburn.

Now while I do defend zero tollerance, I do agree that it hinders self-defense, but the issue is school liability. The achool can and will be on the hool for major injuries related to someone stopping bullying by a lawyer. Whether it goes to court or settled, is a different story. And I'm not talking cases where parents sue when their kids are bullied which is FULLY justified especially with inattentive staff, I mean when the non-physical bully is popped in the mouth and a permanent tooth is knocked out, requiring dental surgery to put it back in.


Here, the level of injury inflicted on the bully, is required to be equitable, but the mental state of the bullied has precedence over equitability
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:01 PM
 
19,399 posts, read 12,056,051 times
Reputation: 26120
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
I tried to kill an older bully when I was in middle school. I wasn't afraid to fight him, I was afraid to get kicked out of school for fighting. We got into a fight in my yard and I was tired of him and thought whatever happens to a 12 year old who kills I was ready for it. I wasn't successful but we never got into a fight again. He continued to bully other kids and finally about eight to ten kids jumped him. It was pretty bad. Everybody got a foot in on his head. He wasn't the same after that. I looked him up recently on the State offender’s website and there was his smiling mugshot with a gray beard. He’s been in and out for years.

I would seriously tell a parent who knows their kid is bulling other kids to seek counseling for them. There is something not right about some of these guys. But in my case this kid’s family dynamics was part of the problem. There was a lot of fighting or abuse going on in his house. But that’s how it was dealt with; you would get a bunch people together and beat the hell out of the bully. When I complained to my mother she told me to pick up the biggest thing I could lift and hit him with it. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with issue with my kids because I couldn't tell them what I think works like charm.
Most of the worst bullies come from abusive homes. They start out really young abusing others as they have been abused. It is no excuse, they learn it is wrong quickly but it is what it is.

My first grade bully came from the sketchy side of town, by the swamp. He only had one shirt, one sweater and always wore the same pair of brown corduroy pants and worn out suede shoes. Weird how we can remember details like that, but the kid terrified me and forced me to do his homework or said he would kill me. Six years old, and pre-internet or cable tv even, so he must have learned that from somewhere else.
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:33 PM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,757,035 times
Reputation: 8437
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
It sounds easy to prevent them from using the tablets, phones, newer generation gaming systems, etc., but let me tell you, it isnt. I grew up before many of these luxuries that are now needs were around, let alone affordable. I had an Atari (I forget the number) and there wasn't much online activity, well until Sega's Dreamcast in 1999 and morr so Microsoft's Xbox.

My boomer parents only had a personal computer with no internet access from when i was about 7/8 in 1994. These parents let me play Wolfenstein 3-D and I'm not going out trying to kill people thinking they are Nazis or build real life roller coasters from Disney' Coaster that will kill people (thoughit was far easier in the Roller Coaster Tycoon series.) Why, they watched on. They knew my brother and I would play games like Operation Wolf or Hogan's Alley. Why shelter us and not teach us the important lesson of "It is just a game."

Then four years later they got a newer computer that was more internet ready. This was used for school as well as leisure. I cant tell you how many papers whether reports or speeches that ai needed to type up at home to bring into school from 6th grade on, even college (when we had the day of sharing through Dropbox, Google Docs, and other more academic sharing programs.)

Luckily with me, most people in school didn't catch my email so I didn't get caught in a trap on websites or places like AIM or MSNM. Then again, there wasn't MySpace, Twitter, Facebook, etc. until what, 2003-5 depending on the platform. Some kids don't have a knowledge of the web before web 2.0 because they weren't on it until after.

Ironically by the time my boomer parents had me, they never encouraged fighting, even if it was defense. I got yelled out a few times that I did in all honesty. I even white lied to my father who would be home early if I had a detention. Why I feared him. He was known to fight back as a kid, but it was a different time. Back then educators COULD touch children for better or worse. Back then parents wouldn't sure if the bully lost a tooth. That changed sometime when late Gen-X was in school because I'm a millennial in nearly any definition you can find. It is debated by many researchers if 1980 or 1984 kids were the first millenials.

Basically, my ready to defend himself dad had to remind me even into my senior year of high school wht I got bullied by these two idiots and their friend who didn't try hard enough to stop it, not to do anything even though the school couldn't. Why, it wouldn't look good on transcripts to Havre a possible arrest. Back when boomers were in high school, you would maybe get detention and that is all.
Please note, I have two children. One is nearly 16 and one is 9. I was born in 1979 and we had a PC when I was a teen in the early 90s.

It is easy to keep kids off of tablets and phones. My 9 year old has never had a phone nor a tablet other than a Leap Pad 2 which is not internet accessible. There is no reason for any child to be on a phone or a tablet while they are in elementary school.

I am aware that many middle schools and high schools give children surface tablets or other tablets for their school books and assignments. Luckily my kid's schools have not and I have been very vocal against it along with a group of parents who were of similar minds when my oldest was going to middle school. We prevented them from getting the tablets because of cyber security concerns and online bullying concerns. The school already had some cyber bullying issues due to parents giving elementary aged kids cell phones and the elementary aged kids going on social media sites and bullying each other on those sites. So they agreed that adding more technology to the mix was not a good idea at the time.

My oldest child got a smart phone when he started high school. I switched from andoid to iphone at that time for the whole family because iphone has VERY good parental controls for smartphones. I set the phone up with my own apple ID and my son cannot download any apps without my permission so he only has what I want him to have. I also have the password to his phone and he knows I will look through it periodically to see what he is up to. He currently has access to Instagram and Snap Chat only (those are enough). He cannot get access to porn on his phone due to the apple filter (I made sure he couldn't and googled every single porn-esque thing me and my husband could think of to make sure it was blocking him lol).

My 9 year old will not get any tablet or smart phone until she is in the 9th grade. There is no reason for her to have one. She does not deal with bullying. Luckily she goes to a great school and like with my oldest child, the parents of her friends/classmates also are not big into getting their kids phones/tablets so only 1 or 2 of her friends have one (which I think is ridiculous). She doesn't go anywhere without me or her dad or older brother or grandparents so there is no reason for her to have one and it is irresponsible IMO for parents to give little kids smart phones or tablets. I consider it putting porn and pedophiles into your child's pocket/bedroom.
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