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I've been rooting for the Fair Tax for years, but I don't ever see it happening. In all the talk about the latest "tax reform" it wasn't mentioned once.
what's fair?
if someone earns more and pays a higher %, but still has more money than someone else, does that mean it's fair to tax even more? Until the person who earns more has the same income as the person who didn't?
I want a fair country, lets get rid of all the poor people so only the rich are left
In theory a consumption tax like a VAT is far better from the perspective of economic efficiency and slightly better from the perspective of fairness if looked at in isolation. In practice retired and near-retired individuals who had payed income tax all their work lives and now need to pay the consumption tax too in retirement would be screwed. The overall benefits aren't worth doing that to a generation, even if it would be a better system if building one from scratch.
The argument is that taxation is theft but here you argue that a tax is not theft. A tax is a tax is a tax.
Taxation in its current form is theft. It could be called nothing more. It's a tool to "stick it" to the rich and support the inactive so that they do not cause social unrest. So we get to slug the rich and pay ransom to the poor. It's a twofer.
True taxation is not theft. It is fee paid for service rendered.
Consumption tax is probably the most logical way to implement such a fee without harming (and in reality, actually aiding) the extremely poor. You know as well as I do that under the Fair Tax proposal, the extremely poor get a pass up to a certain point when it comes to the consumption tax. Fair Tax is essentially a luxury tax and would largely effect the wealthy with lots of disposable income. For the middle class, it would likely be about a wash. There would just be a complete absence of nauseating, needless paperwork.
That you are not in favor of such when your pet taxation system essentially does the same thing in that regard tells me there is something else you wish to accomplish via taxation. I'm assuming that something is mandatory punishment for the rich rather than voluntary contribution which almost all wealthy would most certainly make under the Fair Tax taxation system. There is something about coercion and dependency that appeals to you.
In theory a consumption tax like a VAT is far better from the perspective of economic efficiency and slightly better from the perspective of fairness if looked at in isolation. In practice retired and near-retired individuals who had payed income tax all their work lives and now need to pay the consumption tax too in retirement would be screwed. The overall benefits aren't worth doing that to a generation, even if it would be a better system if building one from scratch.
And they wouldn't have to be. There are ways around that.
But sticking to the blight that is the tax code right now and sacrificing everyone forever is not a good solution.
And a lot of tools here as well that are willingly submitting themselves to being revenue generation devices willingly enabling a runaway government spending problem.
Taxation in its current form is theft. It could be called nothing more. It's a tool to "stick it" to the rich and support the inactive so that they do not cause social unrest. So we get to slug the rich and pay ransom to the poor. It's a twofer.
True taxation is not theft. It is fee paid for service rendered.
Consumption tax is probably the most logical way to implement such a fee without harming (and in reality, actually aiding) the extremely poor. You know as well as I do that under the Fair Tax proposal, the extremely poor get a pass up to a certain point when it comes to the consumption tax. Fair Tax is essentially a luxury tax and would largely effect the wealthy with lots of disposable income. For the middle class, it would likely be about a wash. There would just be a complete absence of nauseating, needless paperwork.
That you are not in favor of such when your pet taxation system essentially does the same thing in that regard tells me there is something else you wish to accomplish via taxation. I'm assuming that something is mandatory punishment for the rich rather than voluntary contribution which almost all wealthy would most certainly make under the Fair Tax taxation system. There is something about coercion and dependency that appeals to you.
I'm not against a consumption tax. I am against the poor arguments for it.
I'm not against a consumption tax. I am against the poor arguments for it.
So we agree......taxation is not theft?
No, true taxation is not theft. A functional society requires a certain infrastructure (which of course, the level of which could be debated). Someone has to pay for that infrastructure, and presumably that would be the responsibility of the members of that society--all members. If you choose to be a member of that society, then you choose to contribute to that society. The problem, in my opinion, is when taxation becomes some sort of socialist redistribution thing or a punitive device. When it becomes a matter of taking someone's assets simply because you can and "somebody has to pay for it," that's where the theft comes in. Also, when a government has a spending problem, NOBODY should have to pay for it--it shouldn't be that way in the first place.
No, true taxation is not theft. A functional society requires a certain infrastructure (which of course, the level of which could be debated). Someone has to pay for that infrastructure, and presumably that would be the responsibility of the members of that society--all members. If you choose to be a member of that society, then you choose to contribute to that society. The problem, in my opinion, is when taxation becomes some sort of socialist redistribution thing or a punitive device. When it becomes a matter of taking someone's assets simply because you can and "somebody has to pay for it," that's where the theft comes in. Also, when a government has a spending problem, NOBODY should have to pay for it--it shouldn't be that way in the first place.
The government has a spending problem. That we agree. I will quibble and argue for different things than you but at least this is a rational argument.
I'm not against a consumption tax. I am against the poor arguments for it.
So we agree......taxation is not theft?
A tax on your prosperity, is Marxism.
Yes, it is government theft of your earnings. The Mafia does the same thing, to keep you from getting a broken leg.
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