Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is nothing like Obamacare. There was a year worth of senate and a HUNDRED Republican amendments added to the ACA. Why do you people keep repeating the same lies?
So with all those amendments added in still not a single Republican voted for the bill. Now, exactly how does that make sense? If the Democrats were working so closely with the Republicans, and giving them so much in the bill, then why didn't any of them vote for it? That seems strange. I tell you what I remember, I remember Nancy Pelosi telling people they would find out just what was in that bill after they voted for it. But she added that they should trust her, it's a great bill. And then, without question, all the Dems lined up and voted in the ACA, most without even knowing what was even in the bill. The Democrats had the majority, and they did whatever they wanted while they had the power. And they did it without care for Republican views or wishes.
Ah, you wonderful people with your short memories. I wonder how they are going to feel if the Democrats pull the same crap? You mean like when they pushed through the ACA with zero support from the Republicans? Oh yeah, and then there's the comment about debt. You mean like the 9.1trillion in debt added during the Barack Obama years when the Democrats had the majority. But yeah, it's definitely only shameful when it's the Republicans. More partisan nonsense. If you want to talk this way, at least acknowledge that neither or our primary parties seems to give a damn about national debt. And at least this measure could potentially bring more money back into the states and maybe help decrease the debt. Something legislation like the ACA will never do.
You seem to have a short memory...
"Baucus very deliberately started the talks with a template that was the core of the 1993-4 Republican plan, built around an individual mandate and exchanges with private insurers—much to the chagrin of many Democrats and liberals who wanted, if not a single-payer system, at least one with a public insurance option. Through the summer, the Gang of Six engaged in detailed discussions and negotiations to turn a template into a plan. But as the summer wore along, it became clear that something had changed; both Grassley and Enzi began to signal that participation in the talks—and their demands for changes in the evolving plan—would not translate into a bipartisan agreement.
What became clear before September, when the talks fell apart, is that Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell had warned both Grassley and Enzi that their futures in the Senate would be much dimmer if they moved toward a deal with the Democrats that would produce legislation to be signed by Barack Obama. They both listened to their leader. An early embrace by both of the framework turned to shrill anti-reform rhetoric by Grassley—talking, for example, about death panels that would kill grandma—and statements by Enzi that he was not going to sign on to a deal. The talks, nonetheless, continued into September, and the emerging plan was at least accepted in its first major test by the third Republican Gang member, Olympia Snowe (even if she later joined every one of her colleagues to vote against the plan on the floor of the Senate.)" https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-birth/397742/
It's hilarious how liberals are now crying over the deficit when in the previous administration, they never gave it a second thought. It was just the cost of doing business then, but now they are losing sleep over it, LOL.
What's really troubling is the republicans were always the party of fiscal conservatives. What the heck happened to that.
CHARTS: See How Much Of GOP Tax Cuts Will Go To The Middle Class
The average household would get a tax cut of $1,610 in 2018, a bump of about 2.2 percent in that average household's income, according to a report released Monday by the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan think tank that has been critical of the tax overhaul plan.
However, extremes make averages, and the benefits would be much larger for richer households. A household earning $1 million or more would get an average cut of $69,660, an income bump of 3.3 percent. Compare that with the a tax cut of $870, or 1.6 percent, for the average household earning $50,000 to $75,000.
This would mean a tiny tax bump for many lower- and middle-class households — the average $50,000 to $75,000 — earning household would have a tax bill that is $30 higher than today. The average household earning more than $1 million would get a cut of more than $23,000.
Every news source is in agreement that the MORE money one makes the better off you'll be. This is typical of the right, not that the left is innocent but even more so with the right. A child would understand this, so why can't trump voters?
I have been a loyal and passionate Republican for decades. Yet I HATE this tax bill that just passed....all for completely different reasons that the Democrats have for not liking it.
By far my #1 reason I am against it is it doubled the child tax credit to $2000. This makes me so furious I will probably never vote Republican again for the rest of my life. It is extremely unfair to the childless or those with adult children. Let's say you have two relatively low paid workers..a childless person and a woman with 3 illegitimate kids. The mother will get $6000 which is between 3 months and a half a years worth of pay for a low paid worker. This is outrageous. If someone has kids great but they should pay everything...not the taxpayer.
Another reason I HATE this tax plan is it will add to to our already obscene national debt. It seems Republicans have completely given up on cutting spending. They don't want to come across as mean. Well running up our debt is mean because it is not sustainable and will eventually cause the collapse of our country. The #1 reason I have voted Republican all my life is I want draconian cuts in the social safety net for young able bodied people. But Republicans absolutely refuse to do this. If they are going to cut any program it will be Social security and Medicare.. which older people who are descriminated against in the workforce are dependent on for survival. Ironically Reps want to give welfare through the tax code to young people having lots of children but cut social services to old people which is by far their biggest voting block. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
Another reason I am against the tax bill is that the corporate tax cuts will not lead to more hiring. I would have been enthusiastic if the bill rewarded companies with big tax breaks if (and only if) they create X amount of new American jobs. But there is nothing like this so instead most of the extra money will go to shareholders. Which leads me to another problem I have. One of the top reasons I voted for Trump is I wanted the stock market (and housing) bubbles to pop. This would cause some well needed price deflation and ease costs for the Trump voting base. Instead to my horror...the stock market is going through the roof which is mainly benefiting Hillary Clinton voting elitists.
So for these and other reasons I can no longer vote Republican. But as you can tell reading my opinions there is no home for me in the Democrat party either. So now my choices are to throw away my vote on some fringe third party or not vote at all.
Even if I disagree with Democrats on just about everything I appreciate their voices against the tax plan...so much so that I am cheering for them to take over the House and Senate. If they run a populist Bernie Sanders type in 2020 I might even consider voting Democrat for the first time. If they run anyone corporate/mainstream/third way or neolib I won't vote for them, especially if I hear the word "Russia" one time from them. This is unlikely so fringe party or not voting looks to be my future.
These are the reasons I hate the tax bill too, even though I do save a bundle.
We do NOT need to pay people to hatch offspring they really can't afford! If a $2000 tax credit helps a family, then that family cannot afford to be having kids, and I don't want to pay for it!
I have been a loyal and passionate Republican for decades. Yet I HATE this tax bill that just passed....all for completely different reasons that the Democrats have for not liking it.
By far my #1 reason I am against it is it doubled the child tax credit to $2000. This makes me so furious I will probably never vote Republican again for the rest of my life. It is extremely unfair to the childless or those with adult children. Let's say you have two relatively low paid workers..a childless person and a woman with 3 illegitimate kids. The mother will get $6000 which is between 3 months and a half a years worth of pay for a low paid worker. This is outrageous. If someone has kids great but they should pay everything...not the taxpayer.
You realize they cut out the deduction for dependents? Its pretty much a wash as far as saving money for people with kids.
I don't believe you are really a passionate Republican. Nice try though.
Not those that actually planned for their future aka stayed in high school and graduated.
Social Security and Medicare.
What has high school got to do with it? We are talking about people who probably graduated from college and paid into SS and Medicare all their working lives. Some didn't go to college. Both groups need SS for when they are retired and no longer have a great income. Medicare is health insurance for those over age 65. You can plan all you want but you never know! You could end up in a divorce at a late age or have a catastrophic health condition that eats up all your money and prevents you from working.
SS and Medicare are brilliant ideas and we have them because of the horrors that can happen--to anyone. They are in place for good reason. Maybe some people need to go and read up on what it used to be like in this country in the "good old days."
Ah, you wonderful people with your short memories. I wonder how they are going to feel if the Democrats pull the same crap? You mean like when they pushed through the ACA with zero support from the Republicans? Oh yeah, and then there's the comment about debt. You mean like the 9.1trillion in debt added during the Barack Obama years when the Democrats had the majority. But yeah, it's definitely only shameful when it's the Republicans. More partisan nonsense. If you want to talk this way, at least acknowledge that neither or our primary parties seems to give a damn about national debt. And at least this measure could potentially bring more money back into the states and maybe help decrease the debt. Something legislation like the ACA will never do.
I agree.
Most of the hysteria has been cause by the relentless bashing of the tax bill by the media. The tax bill is nearly always referred to as "the 1.5 trillion dollar tax bill" so people who aren't paying attention think that means debt is increased the day Trump signs it. And a lot of people aren't paying attention.
I don't think it will add anything to the national debt. I think it will attract enough business and growth so that the national debt will hardly budge over the next 10 years. I certainly hope so.
The biggest contributor to national debt was increased spending during the economic down turn. Sort of like losing your job and buying a new car all at the same time. Obviously, I was opposed to the $1 trillion economic stimulus fund, which was jammed through. All 177 Republicans and 11 Democrats voted against it, but it passed 288-188. Senate was 61-37. It took all of 21 days for the Dems to cram it through. Signed on Feb 17, 2009. Shovel ready, and all that...
Don't recall hearing anything about debt during that period.
I agree.
Most of the hysteria has been cause by the relentless bashing of the tax bill by the media. The tax bill is nearly always referred to as "the 1.5 trillion dollar tax bill" so people who aren't paying attention think that means debt is increased the day Trump signs it. And a lot of people aren't paying attention.
I don't think it will add anything to the national debt. I think it will attract enough business and growth so that the national debt will hardly budge over the next 10 years. I certainly hope so.
The biggest contributor to national debt was increased spending during the economic down turn. Sort of like losing your job and buying a new car all at the same time. Obviously, I was opposed to the $1 trillion economic stimulus fund, which was jammed through. All 177 Republicans and 11 Democrats voted against it, but it passed 288-188. Senate was 61-37. It took all of 21 days for the Dems to cram it through. Signed on Feb 17, 2009. Shovel ready, and all that...
Don't recall hearing anything about debt during that period.
This is the big IF. Republicans are counting on companies coming back to the US and employing americans. But why should they when they can find cheaper labor in other countries and not pay them benefits. It's a no brainer for companies to stay there. Their tax reductions will just go to the CEO and share holders, like they don't have enough money already What this tax bill is going to do is add to the deficit which our kids and their kids will have to pay for.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
CHARTS: See How Much Of GOP Tax Cuts Will Go To The Middle Class
