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Old 12-26-2017, 08:42 AM
 
73,009 posts, read 62,585,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleh View Post
wow thats quite the hyperbole so dumb.
did Jefferson Davis and Alexander Stephens tell you that themselves or did you just make it up to fit your narrative?
Actually, Jefferson Davis did say he would support secession if an abolitionist President was elected. Speech of Jefferson Davis before the Mississippi Legislature, Nov. 16, 1858," where he advocates secession if an abolitionist is elected president.

Quote:
It seems now to be probable that the Abolitionists and their allies will have control of the next House of Representatives, and it may be well inferred from their past course that the will attempt legislature both injurious and offensive to the south. I have an abiding faith that any law which violates our constitutional rights, will be met with a veto by the present Executive. – But should the next House of Representatives be such as would elect an Abolition President, we may expect that the election will be so conducted as probably to defeat a choice by the people and devolve the election upon the House.



Whether by the House or by the people, if an Abolitionist be chosen president of the United States, you will have presented to you the question of whether you will permit the government to pass into the hands of your avowed and implacable enemies. Withoutt pausing for your answer, I will state my own position to be that such a result would be a species of revolution by which the purposes of the Government would be destroyed and the observances of its mere forms entitled to no respect.



In that event, in such manner as should be most expedient, I should deem it your duty to provide for your safety outside of a Union with those how have already shown the will, and would have acquired the power, to deprive you of your birthright and to reduce you to worse than the colonial dependence of your fathers.



The master mind of the so-called Republican party, Senator Seward, has in a recent speech at Rochester, announced the purpose of his party to dislodge the Democracy from the possession of the federal Government, and assigns as a reason the friendship of that party for what he denominates the slave system. He declares the Union between the States having slave labor and free labor to be incompatible, and announces that one or the other must disappear. He even asserts that it was the purpose of the framers of the Government to destroy slave property, and cities as evidence of it, the provision for an amendment of the Constitution. He seeks to alarm his auditors by assuring them of the purpose on the part of the South and the Democratic to force slavery upon all the States of the Union. Absurd as all this may seem to you, and incredulous as you may be of its acceptance by any intelligent portion of the citizens of the United States, I have reason to believe that it has been inculcated to no small extent in the Northern mind.



It requires but a cursory examination of the Constitution of the United States; but a partial knowledge of its history and of the motives of the men who formed it, to see how utterly fallacious it is to ascribe to them the purpose of interfering with the domestic institutions of any of the States. But if a disrespect for that instrument, a fanatical disregard of its purposes, should ever induce a majority, however large, to seek by amending the Constitution, to pervert it from its original object, and to deprive you of the quality which your fathers bequeathed to you, I say let the star of Mississippi be snatched from the constellation to shine by its inherent light, if it must be so, through all the storms and clouds of war.



The same dangerously powerful man describes the institution of slavery as degrading to labor, as intolerant and inhuman, and says the white laborer among us is not enslaved only because he cannot yet be reduced to bondage. Where he learned his lesson, I am at a loss to imagine; certainly not by observation, for you all know that by interest, if not by higher motive, slave labor bears to capital as kind a relation as can exist between them anywhere; that it removes from us all that controversy between the laborer and the capitalist, which has filled Europe with starving millions and made their poorhouses an onerous charge. You too know, that among us, white men have an equality resulting form a presence of a lower caste, which cannot exist where white men fill the position here occupied by the servile race. The mechanic who comes among us, employing the less intellectual labor of the African, takes the position which only a master-workman occupies where all the mechanics are white, and therefore it is that our mechanics hold their position of absolute equality among us.



I say to you here as I have said to the Democracy of New York, if it should ever come to pass that the Constitution shall be perverted to the destruction of our rights so that we shall have the mere right as a feeble minority unprotected by the barrier of the Constitution to give an ineffectual negative vote in the Halls of Congress, we shall then bear to the federal gov*ernment the relation our colonial fathers did to the British crown, and if we are worthy of our lineage we will in that event redeem our rights even if it be through the process of revolu*tion. And it gratifies me to be enabled to say that no portion of the speech to which I have referred was received with more marked approbation by the Democracy there assembled than the sentiment which has just been cited. I am happy also to state that during the past summer I heard in many places, what previously I had only heard from the late President Pierce, the declaration that whenever a Northern army should be as*sembled to march for the subjugation of the South, they would have a battle to fight at home before they passed the limits of their own State, and one in which our friends claim that the victory will at least be doubtful.



Now, as in 1851, I hold separation from the Union by the State of Mississippi to be the last remedy—the final alternative. In the language of the venerated Calhoun I consider the disruption of the Union as a great though not the greatest calamity. I would cling tenaciously to our constitutional Gov*ernment, seeing as I do in the fraternal Union of equal States the benefit to all and the fulfillment of that high destiny which our fathers hoped for and left it for their sons to attain. I love the flag of my country with even more than a filial affection. Mississippi gave me in my boyhood to her military .service. For many of the best years of my life I have followed that flag and upheld it on fields where if I had fallen it might have been claimed as my winding sheet. When I have seen it surrounded by the flags of foreign countries, the pulsations of my heart have beat quicker with every breeze which displayed its honored stripes and brilliant constellation. I have looked with venera*tion on those stripes as recording the original size of our po*litical family and with pride upon that constellation as mark*ing the family’s growth; I glory in the position which Missis*sippi’s star holds in the group; but sooner than see its lustre dimmed—sooner than see it degraded from its present equality—would tear it from its place to be set even on the perilous ridge of battle as a sign round which Mississippi’s best and bravest should gather to the harvest-home of death.

As for Alexander Stephens, look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech


Quote:
The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."
Quote:
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science.
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,743,685 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleh View Post
If you want to take that stance, so be it, I can respect that.
I, respectfully, disagree... in relativism they found themselves to be superior to the African race as they didnt know any better , but not better than everyone as the true definition of supremacist would mean.
We're not talking theory here. We are talking about the actual practice of slavery. And most slave owners did indeed think that white people were superior, that a black person's natural condition was rightfully one of involuntary servitude. They said it repeatedly and consistently, for a couple hundred years.

Jefferson, who was in theory significantly bothered by the ethics of slavery, still in fact said that blacks were generally inferior to whites and that free blacks, who existed in his time, could never be full citizens of the US.

And yes, many white people of the time, and into our own time, also thought that that asians and jews were inferior to whites.

Last edited by jacqueg; 12-26-2017 at 08:57 AM..
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:42 AM
 
Location: The South
7,480 posts, read 6,257,558 times
Reputation: 13002
The tree being cut down was planted by Andrew Jackson. Doesn't that sort of fit in here?

Tree that's been at White House since 1800s scheduled to be removed | TheHill
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:56 AM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,812,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern man View Post
The tree being cut down was planted by Andrew Jackson. Doesn't that sort of fit in here?

Tree that's been at White House since 1800s scheduled to be removed | TheHill
No, the tree is damaged, that is why it is being removed.
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:40 AM
 
12,265 posts, read 6,469,490 times
Reputation: 9435
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleh View Post
there are lots of shoulds in the world. like we should have never elected Obama to the White house, TWICE He successfully divided the US, Trump exposed it.

the statues haven't hurt anyone and represent nothing but history, only the liberal snowflakes could be bothered by history and continue to try to remove it. How dumb.
He didn`t divide me. I always hated racists. When the subject is too complicated for some folks the usual reaction is to screech about Librul something or other.
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Old 12-26-2017, 12:08 PM
 
11,988 posts, read 5,292,205 times
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It both amazes and utterly depresses me that 152 years after the end of the Civil War, we still have people upset about the removal of a statue celebrating the life of a man who became a millionaire by selling his fellow human beings into slavery and who later helped found the Ku Klux Klan.
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Old 12-26-2017, 12:54 PM
 
3,538 posts, read 1,327,383 times
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Amazing that people still argue about all this stuff. No matter how much clear cut proof you give these people about the Civil War/Slavery directly from the mouths of confederates, they still argue. Truly ignorant people. They are grown children throwing tantrums. And many of them just flat out agree with the words of the confederates they just don't want to say it explicitly. Such a time wasting endeavor trying to do the right things while people like this exist.


I'm sure if a bunch of black people marched down the street saying "2+2=4" there'd be a "2+2=5" group started to counter it.
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:36 PM
 
51,650 posts, read 25,807,433 times
Reputation: 37884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
It both amazes and utterly depresses me that 152 years after the end of the Civil War, we still have people upset about the removal of a statue celebrating the life of a man who became a millionaire by selling his fellow human beings into slavery and who later helped found the Ku Klux Klan.
To be fair, some view the founding of the KKK as a positive.
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,230 posts, read 18,571,948 times
Reputation: 25799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
It both amazes and utterly depresses me that 152 years after the end of the Civil War, we still have people upset about the removal of a statue celebrating the life of a man who became a millionaire by selling his fellow human beings into slavery and who later helped found the Ku Klux Klan.
Are you talking about Senator Robert Byrd (D)?
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:03 PM
 
272 posts, read 134,572 times
Reputation: 162
These monuments being taken down also helps distract from the fact that most of these places are crime ridden pits. The murder rate in Memphis is about 64 percent higher than that of Chicago this year, new orleans is right up there with baltimore and st louis for murder rates.

Many of these places have higher murder rates than ciudad juarez, and places in brazil, south africa,mexico.

Close to 10% unemployment for blacks in memphis but lets focus on what matters, monuments
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