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Old 12-29-2017, 09:40 AM
 
1,304 posts, read 1,097,811 times
Reputation: 2717

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It really comes down to a very simple premise: some things should not be done on a for-profit basis. Healthcare is one of them. Whenever you introduce a profit motive, people, no matter how altruistic, will adjust their behavior accordingly. It's human nature.

I'm sure every single person who goes through the trouble of finishing medical school does so to help people. That's why orgs such as Doctors without Borders have a surplus of volunteers... It's also why there are more specialists (who strangely enough get paid significantly more than General Practitioners) than there are GPs...

I'm sure every insurance company that serves little purpose other than to be a middle man, and regulate what healthcare a patient receives, and which doctors they receive it from, has nothing but the health and well being of their customers in mind.

Don't even get me started on the fallacy of a non-profit hospital and the administrative costs incurred to ensure it does not generate profit... It's Friday and I don't want to get that angry.

 
Old 12-29-2017, 09:42 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,546,528 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheepie2000 View Post
And when you or a family member needs better care than you can get here, are you going to leave the country too? Wouldn't you rather have better care right here in the U.S. and pay rates that are comparable to what people in other countries pay for better care and better outcomes?

Why do you think excellent care at a fair and affordable price should not be available in the U.S.? Other countries have achieved that. Do you think Americans are that undeserving? If you're one of those "every man for himself" types, I doubt very much that you are able to research and cure yourself of every ailment without help, but you're free to try. Most of us are willing to live as a society where we work together to make our country and our lives better. Why can't we make our healthcare system better?
Put bluntly; because you have to climb over a wall of "stupid" paid for by those making profit from maintaining the status-quo and erected by idiots thinking they're immune from karma.
 
Old 12-29-2017, 09:48 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,960,923 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtrucks View Post
* #1 in medical research

* #1 in innovations

* #1 in cures

* #1 in nobel prizes

* #1 in survival rates
Money.

We pay the highest prices in the world for medical services. We subsidize the health care costs for others globally. So we get some accolades in return. And we get some terrible statistics as well. Longevity. Mortality associated with birth rates. Drug addiction. Obesity.

We would be better served with universal healthcare.
 
Old 12-29-2017, 09:54 AM
 
5,051 posts, read 3,596,361 times
Reputation: 6512
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Money.

We pay the highest prices in the world for medical services. We subsidize the health care costs for others globally. So we get some accolades in return. And we get some terrible statistics as well. Longevity. Mortality associated with birth rates. Drug addiction. Obesity.

We would be better served with universal healthcare.
Most likely yes. HC is not a contest to be or have the best Plastic/Cardio/Gastro/etc Surgeon or specialists or facility or even Hospital - America excels at all that.

HC is about access and outcomes. Affordability = access and Long-term care= outcomes two areas where the US is far behind the rest of the developed world.
 
Old 12-29-2017, 09:55 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,081,726 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
GoFundYourself is our new national healthcare policy.

How far we've fallen.

We have a system for basic care. Or we could. It's called private health insurance sold for profit and mutual benefit by private corporations to private citizens. With no government involvement at all. That system recognizes that you do not have the right to hold a gun to the heads of others to guarantee your personal health.


Socialized medicine is medical slavery. And what does that slavery yield? Free dentures and adult diapers. What does that slavery fail to yield? Cures for diseases.
 
Old 12-29-2017, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,494 posts, read 11,322,313 times
Reputation: 9010
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Mostly because our government funds research. Imagine how much better we’d be if our government guaranteed everyone care.
Do you have a link showing that the US government is responsible for most medical innovation?
 
Old 12-29-2017, 09:59 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,273,758 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
You already pay for it.

The US spends roughly twice as many public dollars on healthcare as countries with single payer, and the people still pay for it out of pocket again.

The same procedure done in France for $1,000 costs $5,000 here.
No I don’t. I don’t have health insurance. I subsidize no one.
 
Old 12-29-2017, 09:59 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,960,923 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
We have a system for basic care. Or we could. It's called private health insurance sold for profit and mutual benefit by private corporations to private citizens. With no government involvement at all. That system recognizes that you do not have the right to hold a gun to the heads of others to guarantee your personal health.


Socialized medicine is medical slavery. And what does that slavery yield? Free dentures and adult diapers. What does that slavery fail to yield? Cures for diseases.
That's an argument. It's founded on the belief that medical research exists only for profit. We have centuries of evidence that that belief is untrue. Medical research exists because people really do want to find cures, just for humane reasons. Medical research exists because people have questions and want answers. Because people want better answers. Because science is a noble pursuit.

And actually the system we have actually doesn't provide an incentive for cures. It provides an incentive for treatments. Long-term treatments. Finding ways for people to LIVE with diseases, dependent on the drugs that the pharmaceutical industry provides, is much more profitable than actually finding cures. And medical research has caught on to that fact in a big way.
 
Old 12-29-2017, 10:02 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,081,726 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
So you support socialized medicine then? You know, the kind of system that gives access to every citizen no matter their income level?

Yeah, didn't think so. So yeah, you are perfectly fine with millions of Americans going without any healthcare whatsoever.

It is immoral to give anyone "access" to the labor and expertise of others. That goes for doctors also. In a free country we agree to trade for access, not demand it or legislate it. Therefore private health insurance paid for by the individual for his own benefit and that of his family is the way to go. People that evade reality and refuse to recognize the reality of illness and death do not get to use force to compel others to pay for their care.


A free country demands a certain degree of rationality and logic from its citizens. Citizens that fail to use that logic should not presume to be able to use force and violence to extricate what they need from the lives of others.


By removing the consequences of evading reality (death and poor care and appealing to charity), we have made people weak and yet so very curiously demanding. It's a tragedy and a disgrace.
 
Old 12-29-2017, 10:03 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,960,923 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
No I don’t. I don’t have health insurance. I subsidize no one.
Yeah, you do.

Because when you do seek medicine, or medical services, the cost of providing in the United States is multiple times the cost of providing elsewhere. The healthcare industry is going to catch you one way or another. And they make their profits in the United States. Elsewhere they have losses. But they cover the losses with the obscene profits they make in the United States. That's how the United States subsidizes healthcare globally. And how ultimately the American people pay.
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