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for me Liberty means not be forced to provide healthcare or education for someone else. I'm pretty sure Webster's would concur with my usage of the terms and not the o.p.'s
Every civil society takes some of your individual freedom away for the greater benefit of everyone. If you're not an anarchist you're going to tell me you are in favor of the government protecting claims of private property (ownership of land) and creating a system of money. As these benefit a capitalist economy. But they take freedom away as people are forced in such a system to work to have what every other species simply takes for itself if it can defend it (territory and a home and whatever resources are needed around it). The capitalist-libertarian is perfectly fine with a government that takes others' freedom away so long as it benefits them personally. You're against a national healthcare system because you figure you have enough money to provide for your own and you don't want your money going to someone else's benefit. The poor in turn could say they no longer want a system that's set up to benefit you. Your money: worthless. Your claim to property: only good if you can personally defend it.
I'd rather see some basic benefits in exchange for living in a civilized society. Like education and healthcare when people are in pain.
How about we start with what I actually said.
Quote:
Who is providing the basic healthcare for all for life??
Who is providing education for all?
If you are forcing others to provide this for you, then you are taking away "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" from others.
Let me ask you this.
Do you want men with guns (government) to steal money from one person and give it to another person and force that person to provide a service for you?
..be back later to continue the discussion. (That is, if it seems to be heading in the "fruitful" direction. Your original post is giving me an idea you like to make a lot of assumptions about people from the get go, which doesn't give me a whole lot of hope here.)
My life my liberty and pursuits of happiness are far different from most everyone elses.
My happiness is either building and racing cars/trucks (or anything with an engine for that matter). Guns, machine guns in particular. Partying/raising hell. Working to fund it.
And building things out of wood/metal. Like houses. Guns. Roofs. Engines. Transmissions. Differentials.
200-500 secluded acres a big building with lifts, tools, and equipment. (Lathes, mills, arc and might welder mandrels foundry backhoes excavator couple old John Deere tractors)
A little room off to the side with a bathroom kitchen and bed I'm set.
Place to rip around on dirtbikes and quads. Place to rip around in a lifted truck. A road course drag strip and dirt oval to rip around. 1500 yards to shoot on. Deer and hogs to hunt. Few acres worth of tomatoes potatos peas green beans carrots corn, maybe a dozen cows and bulls. Honey Crisp Gala McIntosh granny smith red delicious trees randomly about. Figured and pear trees too. Peaches would be awesome. Trade for citrus.
Maybe a pond. To have bonfires near by and fish out of. Or a lake big enough to hit 100+ on a jetski or in a big block open header jet boat. Nobody to bother me about noise, just like minded individuals who like to raise hell. And eat good.
Shoot off fireworks whenever. Blow up/shoot scrap cars destined for the junk yard.
BBQ and prime rib. Fresh salads and veggies.
And no ATF to say I can't have this or that.
No town noise ordinance to comply with.
We are the happiest most content slaves in the history of the world.
I suppose you can give credit to the world's governments (and the bankers that finance them) for accomplishing that.
Billions still starve, get stolen from, raped and murdered but for the most part we accept it.
In that sense I guess it makes me feel less angry about being the victim of armed robbery (taxes). I can honestly say I'm funding the murdering, robbery, rape, etc. at the highest level ever known to man.
This reminded me of the George Orwell quote...
"The masses never revolt of their own accord, and they never revolt merely because they are oppressed. Indeed, so long as they are not permitted to have standards of comparison, they never even become aware that they are oppressed."
Because the United States is so rich and powerful, and because of certain methods of propaganda, I think it is hard for most people to want to change the system in any meaningful way, because it is difficult to imagine things being much better, but it is extremely easy to see how things could be worse.
Or to quote Lysander Spooner...
"The ostensible supporters of the Constitution, like the ostensible supporters of most other governments, are made up of three classes, viz.: 1. Knaves, a numerous and active class, who see in the government an instrument which they can use for their own aggrandizement or wealth. 2. Dupes – a large class, no doubt – each of whom, because he is allowed one voice out of millions in deciding what he may do with his own person and his own property, and because he is permitted to have the same voice in robbing, enslaving, and murdering others, that others have in robbing, enslaving, and murdering himself, is stupid enough to imagine that he is a “free man,” a “sovereign”; that this is “a free government”; “a government of equal rights,” “the best government on earth,” and such like absurdities. 3. A class who have some appreciation of the evils of government, but either do not see how to get rid of them, or do not choose to so far sacrifice their private interests as to give themselves seriously and earnestly to the work of making a change." - No Treason, 1868
Let me ask you this.
Do you want men with guns (government) to steal money from one person and give it to another person and force that person to provide a service for you?
..be back later to continue the discussion. (That is, if it seems to be heading in the "fruitful" direction. Your original post is giving me an idea you like to make a lot of assumptions about people from the get go, which doesn't give me a whole lot of hope here.)
Why don't you answer your own question. Money is created by government. Private property only exists when there's a hired gun to stand p for you (government). Both of these concepts are key to capitalism. Do you support this.
Why don't you answer your own question. Money is created by government. Private property only exists when there's a hired gun to stand p for you (government). Both of these concepts are key to capitalism. Do you support this.
I suppose then for you, liberty is living out in a remote area totally off the grid?
Americans would rather pay a private insurance company 12 to 18% of their hard earned cash in administrative costs than pay 2% for present medicare. How high would that percentage go if everyone was covered by medicare? 5%, 6%?
What is the difference between keeping $200 a month of your paycheck to buy food, and paying $200 a month in taxes, and then getting $200 a month back in food stamps?
the difference is who controls the money. if i get to keep that $200 from my paycheck, i can spend it any way i choose, be it for food, or what ever. if the government takes that $200 and gives me $200 worth of food stamps, they are then telling me i have to spend that money on food only, instead of what i want to spend the money on.
Who is providing the basic healthcare for all for life??
Who is providing education for all?
If you are forcing others to provide this for you, then you are taking away "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" from others.
Wouldn't that mean any country which collects taxes cannot have life and liberty
We have taxes in US, but we also have life, liberty and are free to pursue happiness.
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