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Old 01-03-2018, 10:43 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,447,778 times
Reputation: 14266

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I know a set of you will dismiss the message our of hand because it comes from The New Yorker. Trump loves your closed mind! Please continue to cover your eyes and ears while chanting "Fake News!" and "Deep State!" Those of you with working heads on your shoulders, consider this:

Trump thinks he is putting America First and being "tough" with his foreign policy. We have withdrawn from Paris, withdrawn from TPP, started cutting down role in UN, in NATO. Trump's Tweets give allies (and adversaries) that America is stepping back and that they can't rely on us anymore. That's good for Trump and his base, for whom Isolationism plays well.

But guess who is waiting in the wings, picking up the pieces and filling the void left by retreating American leadership? It's China, which is ascending and hungry for a bigger role on the world stage at the same time we seem to seek a smaller role.

China was thrilled when the US stepped out of TPP; they stand to grow in influence because they now get to shape it to their advantage as the dominant player. Consider how China is now deploying its assets in a big way on the international stage. They are now embarking on international infrastructure investments seven times the size of the Marshall Plan. Xi Jinping spoke at Davos for the first time this past year. As they continue to benefit from America's isolationism, they will become the thought leaders whose values will steer other nations in the 21sr century - to their benefit and to the detriment of ours.

So, Mr. Trump - Mr. Xi Jinping thanks you! Americans will come to learn that you cannot continue to be the world leader if you isolate yourself. As Trumpers proudly retreat from the world stage to Make America Great Again, they will discovery far too late that what they really succeeded in doing is...Making China Great Again.

Quote:
China’s approach is more ambitious. In recent years, it has taken steps to accrue national power on a scale that no country has attempted since the Cold War, by increasing its investments in the types of assets that established American authority in the previous century: foreign aid, overseas security, foreign influence, and the most advanced new technologies, such as artificial intelligence. It has become one of the leading contributors to the U.N.’s budget and to its peacekeeping force, and it has joined talks to address global problems such as terrorism, piracy, and nuclear proliferation.

And China has embarked on history’s most expensive foreign infrastructure plan. Under the Belt and Road Initiative, it is building bridges, railways, and ports in Asia, Africa, and beyond. If the initiative’s cost reaches a trillion dollars, as predicted, it will be more than seven times that of the Marshall Plan, which the U.S. launched in 1947, spending a hundred and thirty billion, in today’s dollars, on rebuilding postwar Europe.

China is also seizing immediate opportunities presented by Trump. Days before the T.P.P. withdrawal, President Xi Jinping spoke at the World Economic Forum, in Davos, Switzerland, a first for a paramount Chinese leader. Xi reiterated his support for the Paris climate deal and compared protectionism to “locking oneself in a dark room.” He said, “No one will emerge as a winner in a trade war.” This was an ironic performance—for decades, China has relied on protectionism—but Trump provided an irresistible opening. China is negotiating with at least sixteen countries to form the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, a free-trade zone that excludes the United States, which it proposed in 2012 as a response to the T.P.P. If the deal is signed next year, as projected, it will create the world’s largest trade bloc, by population.

In 2000, the U.S. accounted for thirty-one per cent of the global economy, and China accounted for four per cent. Today, the U.S.’s share is twenty-four per cent and China’s fifteen per cent. If its economy surpasses America’s in size, as experts predict, it will be the first time in more than a century that the world’s largest economy belongs to a non-democratic country. At that point, China will play a larger role in shaping, or thwarting, values such as competitive elections, freedom of expression, and an open Internet. Already, the world has less confidence in America than we might guess.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...na-great-again
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:46 PM
 
32,060 posts, read 15,055,077 times
Reputation: 13678
I have been saying this for quite sometime. We are not the leader in the world anymore. China is taking over.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:46 PM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,607,699 times
Reputation: 22232
If China wants to fund NATO, I’m all for it. Im more than happy if they want to take over as many of our foreign payments as they choose. If you want to kick in and mail China some of your paycheck, knock yourself out.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:05 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,447,778 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
If China wants to fund NATO, I’m all for it. Im more than happy if they want to take over as many of our foreign payments as they choose. If you want to kick in and mail China some of your paycheck, knock yourself out.
They increasingly will, don't worry (actually, they'll form and fund their own new alliances over time limiting USA military options).

But you may not like the consequences of decreased international stature and having to increasingly jump the way the Chinese tell you to. It's easy for you to take it for granted when USA is still currently calling the shots on the international stage (for how long, who knows..).
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:08 PM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,607,699 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
They increasingly will, don't worry (actually, they'll form and fund their own new alliances over time limiting USA military options). But you may not like the consequences of decreased international stature and having to jump the way the Chinese tell you to. It's easy for you to take it for granted when USA is still currently calling the shots on the international stage (for how long, who knows..).
If you want stature, write a check and send your kids to depose the next dictator in some foreign hellhole.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:24 PM
 
16,578 posts, read 8,600,121 times
Reputation: 19400
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
I know a set of you will dismiss the message our of hand because it comes from The New Yorker.
Well lets see if you can answer this simple question. Why do you feel compelled to quote someone else's views/thoughts on a public forum, rather than articulate your own point of view?

Don't get me wrong when contemplating how to properly answer my question, as I do understand the general gist of your desire.
However, leftist ideologues such as yourself seem intent on trying to find any anti-Trump voice, then reproduce it (no matter how absurd/liberal), as if you are a mindless sycophant of the far left, just trying to find any other fellow apparatchik who shares your disdain of Trump.

I say this because this is not a singular thread/post, but based on a pattern of anti-Trump/Republican posts you seem all to willing to spend your time on.
Yet I can only imagine you never took the time/effort to do so when Obama & Hilary were busy lying to the American public on a regular basis.
However, if I have mischaracterized you, please feel free to say so, and post just one or two links to threads/posts expressing your displeasure with a liberal/leftist politician.

I look forward to reading and responding.


`
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:29 PM
Status: "Apparently the worst poster on CD" (set 25 days ago)
 
27,640 posts, read 16,125,463 times
Reputation: 19049
China didn’t get that big overnight
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,756,889 times
Reputation: 10006
Quote:
It's China, which is ascending and hungry for a bigger role on the world stage at the same time we seem to seek a smaller role.

China was thrilled when the US stepped out of TPP; they stand to grow in influence because they now get to shape it to their advantage as the dominant player. Consider how China is now deploying its assets in a big way on the international stage.
Sounds impressive... and then you see actual Chinese people abroad, completely clueless about how to behave in the world, eyes rolling in their wake. They aren't quite ready for the global leadership role.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:45 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,832,973 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
China was thrilled when the US stepped out of TPP; they stand to grow in influence because they now get to shape it to their advantage as the dominant player. Consider how China is now deploying its assets in a big way on the international stage. They are now embarking on international infrastructure investments seven times the size of the Marshall Plan. Xi Jinping spoke at Davos for the first time this past year. As they continue to benefit from America's isolationism, they will become the thought leaders whose values will steer other nations in the 21sr century - to their benefit and to the detriment of ours.
the chinese have been growing in influence for a few decades now. manufacturing has been moving to china based on policies that BOTH sides of the isle have been pushing. but we would be heading that way anyway, since the US has been transitioning to a service economy, also for decades. our manufacturing base was huge during and after world war two because it was largely untouched, while the rest of the world had their manufacturing base massively bombed during the war. so until the late 60s the US did the manufacturing for the world for the most part.

and if you look at the region where china sits, these countries are growing, and have changing economies and china is in the best position to supply what they need to grow. their shipping costs are always going to be less than what we can do in the asian arena.

and if you want to lambast a resident for doing something stupid, lets talk about carter who turned the operation of the canal over to the panamanians, who then turned the management of the canal over to the chinese.

there are a lot of people who for years have complained about the US trying to constantly be the top dog in the world, and put the rest of the world first, and then when a president comes along that puts america first, you cant complain enough that he seems to be pulling out of world affairs. so what is it? you want the US out of the world? or you want the US to try and run the world?
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:29 AM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,398,802 times
Reputation: 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
If China wants to fund NATO, I’m all for it. Im more than happy if they want to take over as many of our foreign payments as they choose. If you want to kick in and mail China some of your paycheck, knock yourself out.
This post is the very definition of short-sightedness.
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