Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Which is worse
Letting noncitizens vote 12 30.00%
Restricting citizens access to vote 17 42.50%
They’re equally unacceptable. 11 27.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-06-2018, 02:08 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,369,227 times
Reputation: 22904

Advertisements

Restricting voting rights for citizens. Not even a question in my mind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-06-2018, 02:20 PM
 
15,849 posts, read 14,479,382 times
Reputation: 11947
Your poll is incomplete and inherently flawed. You forgot an entry in the poll, that they'd both perfectly acceptable under certain conditions. For example, it's perfectly acceptable to block citizens who are convicted felons from voting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2018, 02:30 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 7,102,284 times
Reputation: 5613
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
Using a program like CrossCheck and disenrolling people just because someone in another state has the same name, like Jose Rodriguez, but somehow, people like Thomas Wilson aren't flagged.

Requiring a state issued ID but then closing the agency that issues those IDs in counties with large minority populations, while leaving them open in counties where most people are not minority.

Refusing to accept photo college IDs yet accepting gun permits.

How many more examples would you like? Those are just the top of my head but I could google more for you if you need.
A few more: Old people who do not have a birth certificate because they were not issued in some places that long ago or because their parents were too poor to pay for a birth certificate to begin with, then the old person has surrendered his/her drivers license because of age. Natural born citizens without "proper" ID.

People who do not have transportation to take them to a place where they can get the ID, especially if they have a disability.

People who have an identical name to someone who is dead being purged from the system.

People who have an identical name to someone who is a felon being purged from the system.

I have read (a decade ago) that the last two were particularly popular in Florida.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2018, 02:37 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,369,227 times
Reputation: 22904
After the institution of RealID, my elderly mother had to engage an attorney to ensure her right to vote after some confusion ensued regarding her date of birth. She had been registered to vote for nearly six decades when she learned that her voting rights were being revoked. (It had to do with the way her birth was registered in the state where she was born.) She was amazingly persistent. A lesser person would have given up, and we celebrated when her attorney called and told her that everything was finally settled just a couple of weeks before last year's election.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2018, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Homeless
17,717 posts, read 13,536,243 times
Reputation: 11994
Either way it's just as bad as forcing people to have to vote.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2018, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,754 posts, read 14,828,087 times
Reputation: 35584
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Let’s assume, for a second, that there are an equal number of noncitizens who vote as there are citizens who have their ability to vote infringed upon (this clearly isn’t true, but whatever). What’s worse letting a noncitizen vote or depriving a citizen of their constitutional right?

As you've already stated, your scenario "clearly isn't true."

FACT: Citizens can vote

FACT: Non-citizens cannot vote.

'Nuff said.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2018, 03:01 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,383 posts, read 60,575,206 times
Reputation: 60996
Quote:
Originally Posted by G Grasshopper View Post
A few more: Old people who do not have a birth certificate because they were not issued in some places that long ago or because their parents were too poor to pay for a birth certificate to begin with, then the old person has surrendered his/her drivers license because of age. Natural born citizens without "proper" ID.

People who do not have transportation to take them to a place where they can get the ID, especially if they have a disability.

People who have an identical name to someone who is dead being purged from the system.

People who have an identical name to someone who is a felon being purged from the system.

I have read (a decade ago) that the last two were particularly popular in Florida.
And those old people are quickly dying out.

The History of Birth Certificates is Shorter Than You Might Think - History in the Headlines

Strangely enough I have the birth certificates/birth notices of both sets of grandparents dating back to 1879. All born in an area of Pennsylvania that didn't get electricity until 1948.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2018, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,202 posts, read 19,210,098 times
Reputation: 38267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
As you've already stated, your scenario "clearly isn't true."

FACT: Citizens can vote

FACT: Non-citizens cannot vote.

'Nuff said.
FACT: some citizens are deprived of their right to vote by laws enacted with the unspoken but intended purpose of denying poor and people of color the right to exercise their constitutional right to vote. That's why the Voting Rights Act was enacted in the first place, and some states immediately sought to reinstate those barriers as soon as part of the act expired.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2018, 03:30 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,369,227 times
Reputation: 22904
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
FACT: some citizens are deprived of their right to vote by laws enacted with the unspoken but intended purpose of denying poor and people of color the right to exercise their constitutional right to vote. That's why the Voting Rights Act was enacted in the first place, and some states immediately sought to reinstate those barriers as soon as part of the act expired.
My mom is neither poor nor a person of color and she still had to pay an attorney a small fortune to ensure she could continue voting due to a mix-up regarding her birth certificate made nearly eighty years ago. I don't know what a person of lesser resources would have done in the same situation. I can't imagine that they would have persisted as she did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2018, 03:33 PM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,034,396 times
Reputation: 12513
Technically, both are bad ideas, but if I had to pick one (and I missed the "both are equally unacceptable option"), I'd say restricting access to voting.

Why? Because that leads down a darker path faster than allowing non-citizens to vote. Additionally, one can still catch non-citizens and send them home, thus reducing their ability to vote. On the flip side, once one starts down the path of restricting the rights of citizens to vote, it gets very ugly very quickly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:56 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top