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Status:
"Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge."
(set 12 hours ago)
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,598,050 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwinkelman
Same argument can be made for having a lock on your front door. There are all kinds of ways to get inside your home. Yet you would be considered an idiot if you just leave your front door wide open when you are not home.
Put aside illegal immigration. Heroine and Meth are flowing across the border at its weak spots. Billions of dollars in drugs harming our citizens and enriching the cartels who do horrible things to the Mexican citizens.
So if your bleeding liberal heart bleeds for the Mexicans and others crossing out in the desert perhaps it should bleed for Americans dying from these horrible drugs. And the Mexicans dying because the ruthless cartels will stop at nothing to move their merchandise.
And I know that making it harder for Meth and H to enter the country won't stop their use but it will make it more complicated. Right now they bribe the Mexican officials and get the H into the country. The Ephedrine for Meth can be brought in that way also. And more bribes to keep Mexican law enforcement from shutting the operations down. Cross the open border and its in our backyard.
Only a tiny fraction of crime comes from illegal immigrants.
Most drugs enter our country via legal ports of entry, not via illegal treking across the desert. Drug dealers will eventually find a work-around.
As for the non-drug stuff..
It's a huge stretch to compare illegal immigration to theft. Most illegal immigrants are here for work that the native-born refuse to do (pick fruit, work in poultry plants, domestic workers, etc). If the native-born aren't taking those jobs anyway, then how can the illegals be "stealing" those jobs? That's like saying an out of town person is dating a girl none of the local boys like, then claiming he's "stealing our girl" from us. How can they be stealing her when nobody is going for her in the first place?
Even in jobs with somewhat more native-born (construction, f.ex.) the answer is to start enforcing laws against companies and people hiring the illegals. If the feds dis-incentivize businesses from hiring illegals, then the illegals will have a hard time getting jobs, which likewise adds more disincentives to immigrate illegally here.
So if illegal immigrants aren't thieves stealing jobs, then what can they be? A security threat?
Nope, I don't see that either. Any enemies we have can penetrate our country easily enough, especially if in their national intelligence service forged papers and digital data showing them as working for a company, etc. Why would the agencies of China, Russia, Iran, etc. resort to having their agents rough-trek it through the desert? So show me evidence of foreign agents or terrorists entering our country via this route from US government sources (not Breitbart, WND, or prepper sites but .gov . .edu, or credible .orgsites).
Or could illegal immigrants somehow be causing the Feds or state govt's to violate our rights to life, fair trial, property, ability to vote, or our civil liberties? BTW, voter fraud by illegals is just a paranoid myth, so don't pull that one on me. There was no bussing in of illegals to vote, nor was there some wholesale effort by illegals to vote in California.
At the end of the day, there's a price for extreme crackdowns on illegal immigration, and that price is making it excessively hard for legal immigrants to enter into this country - a disproportionate number of whom are a source of innovation. Let's just face it that there's no way to zero out illegal immigration, even assuming there are better ways to do so.
I care because we were assured in no uncertain terms that Mexico would pay. I want to see your snake oil peddler deliver.
Once again, the wall hasn't even been built yet but you and yours have decided that Mexico won't be paying for it in some way or form. How does that work in your head? As for me, for the umpteenth time I don't put a price on our national security. If it comes out of our taxes then so be it. It's still cheaper than the $100 billion a year that illegal aliens cost us and will help prevent criminals and terrorists from getting into our country.
Most drugs enter our country via legal ports of entry, not via illegal treking across the desert. Drug dealers will eventually find a work-around.
As for the non-drug stuff..
It's a huge stretch to compare illegal immigration to theft. Most illegal immigrants are here for work that the native-born refuse to do (pick fruit, work in poultry plants, domestic workers, etc). If the native-born aren't taking those jobs anyway, then how can the illegals be "stealing" those jobs? That's like saying an out of town person is dating a girl none of the local boys like, then claiming he's "stealing our girl" from us. How can they be stealing her when nobody is going for her in the first place?
Even in jobs with somewhat more native-born (construction, f.ex.) the answer is to start enforcing laws against companies and people hiring the illegals. If the feds dis-incentivize businesses from hiring illegals, then the illegals will have a hard time getting jobs, which likewise adds more disincentives to immigrate illegally here.
So if illegal immigrants aren't thieves stealing jobs, then what can they be? A security threat?
Nope, I don't see that either. Any enemies we have can penetrate our country easily enough, especially if in their national intelligence service forged papers and digital data showing them as working for a company, etc. Why would the agencies of China, Russia, Iran, etc. resort to having their agents rough-trek it through the desert? So show me evidence of foreign agents or terrorists entering our country via this route from US government sources (not Breitbart, WND, or prepper sites but .gov . .edu, or credible .orgsites).
Or could illegal immigrants somehow be causing the Feds or state govt's to violate our rights to life, fair trial, property, ability to vote, or our civil liberties? BTW, voter fraud by illegals is just a paranoid myth, so don't pull that one on me. There was no bussing in of illegals to vote, nor was there some wholesale effort by illegals to vote in California.
At the end of the day, there's a price for extreme crackdowns on illegal immigration, and that price is making it excessively hard for legal immigrants to enter into this country - a disproportionate number of whom are a source of innovation. Let's just face it that there's no way to zero out illegal immigration, even assuming there are better ways to do so.
The "illegal alien defenders" are the big employers that hire them almost exclusively for their workforces. Operations like poultry producers/processors, real estate developers, and meat packing plants.
"The Wall" is an oversimple solution, and that at best. I can sort of understand the emotional appeal of it, but the fact is that people will find ways around that wall - unless you want the US to turn into an East Germany in reverse (i.e. using landmines and machine gun nests to keep people out, rather than keeping people from leaving as in East Germany's case).
1. People can forge documents, and thus fool security. 2. People can build black-clothed and black-basketed balloons to get over at night, when the wind is right. 3. Submarines. Drug dealers used them to get drugs into this country, so why not illegal immigrants? 4. Tunnel under the wall. Even the 19th century half-educated miners knew what it takes to make a reasonably stable and safe mine shaft. With modern internet access, any half-way educated person can find out what it takes to make a long tunnel structurally secure.
Hell, even our prisoners in the state pen come up with ingeniously simple ways to get stuff into and out of prison, despite security precautions. They've thought of more ways to do this and that than most people on this thread could even imagine.
So no, a wall is not gonna keep illegal immigrants out. Also, are US-born poor people going to pick the fruit and vegetables? Or do any other things usually considered the jobs of poor foreigners? Alabama and Georgia cracked down really hard on both employers hiring illegals and the illegals themselves - result being lots of unpicked rotting produce in the fields, millions of dollars worth.
No, there simply has to be a continent-wide solution to this problem. At any rate, there is more outmigration from the US to Mexico than the reverse.
"The Wall" is just a sleight of hand move, designed to appeal to our kneejerk reptilian brainstem's desire for immediately visible and obvious solutions. It may seem sensible on the surface, but in the end, won't work. The REAL issue is a shabby education and job training system (especially in terms of affordability), no coherent government economic development policy (Germany has a great worker training program. We should learn from them), and a tax and subsidy policy favoring the wealthy ("wealth-fare"), barerly keeping the middle class afloat (if at all), and just enough to the poor to keep them from starting an armed revolution. Let's focus on this instead of looking for scapegoats to sling feces at.
You're so ill-informed that it's not even funny. There are unlimited visas for legal, foreign workers to pick fruits and vegetables. Illegal aliens have flooded the construction industry for example. Are those jobs that Americans refuse to do for a fair wage? How did we get all those construction jobs done prior to the illegal alien flood? I have already posted a couple of links proving how the good walls work and yes they do stop illegal aliens from getting in here. Every single one of the arguments you throw up that we can't stop illegal entry and their existence here has been debunked over and over. I suggest you catch up and educate yourself on this issue.
Some people still think that Donald Trump is not their president.
That was a rallying cry, but people know the law. It is incredible that such a scoundrel can convince people that he cares about them and will solve their problems. Most Americans know that he really does not care and is in it only for himself.
I think the phrase 'not my president' means more than anything is that he doesn't represent these people's interests, and in that way they would be correct. He is divisive and never pivoted or reached out. He has his small base and he plays to that exclusively. Legally however, he has the oval office and we have to acknowledge that (as unqualified as he is).
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Trump stil believes that Mexico will pay for wall
