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Old 01-08-2018, 12:37 PM
 
2,212 posts, read 1,070,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpat View Post
Well, if someone keeps changing names over and over that is confusing to everyone. But do you have a specific example of that happening or is this hypothetical?

And where are people being punished by law for getting someone's gender wrong? Where in the world is it against the law? Have never seen that anywhere.

And finally, the thing about identity is that its something each person chooses for themselves. Others are not entitled to decide what someone's identity it. They are always entitles to an opinion, but not to decide their identity. Its the ultimate libertarian issue - the freedom to choose your own identity and not have it dictated by anyone else.

California..$1000 fine or 1 year in jail if they use the wrong pronoun (gender identity) repeatedly.
Signed into law last October.

 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:38 PM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,898,380 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
I actually almost included this as an example earlier. I was going to say that people like to compare it to names, and they'll say it's disrespectful to not call someone the name they prefer to be called, so why refer to them with pronouns they don't want to be called?

On a purely practical level, if my name is Tom and I want to be addressed as Steve, that's not a big deal. If I keep changing my name based on how I feel that day, that's going to create some problems. I think that's part of the concern.

On the legal side, if you're punished by law (which we've seen in other countries, and we aren't magically immune to) for not addressing me the way I like, that's an even bigger issue. Even if you argue it's rude, being rude isn't a crime. I assume you'd agree on that.

I mean...If I want you to call me Daddy, you may not feel comfortable with that. Should you have to call me Daddy? What if my feelings are hurt if you don't? I think it's a two-way street. Both sides need to agree on what to call each other instead of one side forcing compliance from the other.
Exactly. If Hillary wants me to call her David I have no problem with that. We do it all the time, Kimberly wants to be called Kim, Elizabeth wants to be called Beth. Alexandria wants to be called Alex. Not a problem.

Changing pronouns is the problem. Having a law that charges me with a crime is the problem. Becuase it's not here yet, give it 5 years. It's coming.
 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:40 PM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,898,380 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by skycaller23 View Post
California..$1000 fine or 1 year in jail if they use the wrong pronoun (gender identity) repeatedly.
Signed into law last October.
Sigh, I guess it is here already. NYC has a very specific but narrow law about it too.
 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Brusssels
1,949 posts, read 3,857,371 times
Reputation: 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by skycaller23 View Post
Not my kid. Happened in California last year..Rocklin Academy. You can google it.
In CA, gender is a protected class.
I looked it up and all I see is a Rocklin Academy that had a five year old "come out" as TG (which is super young) in front of their other students then the teacher read the book "I Am Jazz."

Who got punished? Who got arrested? Please provide a link because I don't see it anywhere.
 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:41 PM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,898,380 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by skycaller23 View Post
If you see a guy you are going to use the words "he" and "him" and "sir".
That is decency and respect.

Why should they be punished if they had no idea that HE wants to be a SHE in his mind ?

Example: First grader got in trouble for "misgendering" because a boy classmate became a girl in his mind over the summer and changed his name to a girl's name. She called him by the name she knew him and got in trouble.
And there is why people care about this issue.

Because it is brainwashing .. I mean affecting the next generation of the country.

Wait til we all just go by numbers and legislate names and pronouns out of existence.
 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,830,347 times
Reputation: 4193
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
I don't care how you dress.

I don't care what your name is.

I don't care what your hobbies are (as long as you aren't hurting anyone else).

I don't care who you date.

I don't care what you do with your hair.

But do NOT expect me to call you woman if you are a man or vice versa.

Because that effects me directly. You are changing the nature of biology. You are redefining biology on YOUR term and expecting me to comply to a falsehood.

I don't demand that you agree with lies I tell, don't expect me to agree to lies YOU tell.

Biology is a fact, don't change facts, and we will get along just fine.
Quote:
Transsexuals experience themselves as being of the opposite sex, despite having the biological characteristics of one sex. A crucial question resulting from a previous brain study in male-to-female transsexuals was whether the reported difference according to gender identity in the central part of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) was based on a neuronal difference in the BSTc itself or just a reflection of a difference in vasoactive intestinal polypeptide innervation from the amygdala, which was used as a marker. Therefore, we determined in 42 subjects the number of somatostatin-expressing neurons in the BSTc in relation to sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and past or present hormonal status. Regardless of sexual orientation, men had almost twice as many somatostatin neurons as women (P < 0.006). The number of neurons in the BSTc of male-to-female transsexuals was similar to that of the females (P = 0.83). In contrast, the neuron number of a female-to-male transsexual was found to be in the male range. Hormone treatment or sex hormone level variations in adulthood did not seem to have influenced BSTc neuron numbers. The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a >>>neurobiological<<< basis of gender identity disorder.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843193

Still awaiting your refutation of this.
 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Brusssels
1,949 posts, read 3,857,371 times
Reputation: 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by skycaller23 View Post
California..$1000 fine or 1 year in jail if they use the wrong pronoun (gender identity) repeatedly.
Signed into law last October.
According to Courtney Joslin, a UC Davis law professor, said the bar for criminal prosecution would be extremely high.

"The bill is very, very clear that what is prohibited is the willful engagement and repeated engagement in discriminatory conduct against LGBT seniors. So, if someone makes a mistake or doesn’t know what a person’s gender identity is and uses the incorrect pronoun that is not a violation of the statute," Joslin said.

Willful and repeated violations alone wouldn’t lead to criminal prosecution, Joslin added. They would likely be punished with a fine.

Criminal charges would only follow, she said, if the violation reached a level that was shown to cause the risk of death or serious physical harm, in accordance with state’s existing penalty structure for health and safety code violations at long-term care centers.

Wiener has said purposefully using the wrong pronoun would be treated the same way as someone who violates a center’s smoking ban. It would be considered a minor violation but "no one is going to jail for that."
 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Brusssels
1,949 posts, read 3,857,371 times
Reputation: 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
And there is why people care about this issue.

Because it is brainwashing .. I mean affecting the next generation of the country.

Wait til we all just go by numbers and legislate names and pronouns out of existence.
Again, why so triggered by every gay and trans topic? I think thou dost protest too much.

https://www.indy100.com/article/homo...sation-7788016
 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:54 PM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,898,380 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843193

Still awaiting your refutation of this.
You've already agreed this is a congenital defect. Which means it is NOT normal. It's an aberration and people who have it are sick by default. It's also one study of 42 participants. In the grand scheme of things, it means very little scientifically. There is nothing to refute.

I don't know what else you want me to say.

You and I disagree. Let's leave it at that.
 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:56 PM
 
2,212 posts, read 1,070,125 times
Reputation: 1381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpat View Post
I looked it up and all I see is a Rocklin Academy that had a five year old "come out" as TG (which is super young) in front of their other students then the teacher read the book "I Am Jazz."

Who got punished? Who got arrested? Please provide a link because I don't see it anywhere.
I did find this although I know people will call it fake news because of the url.



First grader sent to office for 'misgendering' fellow student | Fox News
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