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Old 01-13-2018, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,350,188 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Because the problems you list are more a product of your own mind and prejudices than they are based in reality.

Some people will find any excuse to justify their thought process, no matter how illogical or unproven it is.

You apparently believe that no one will ever do anything of value to society unless they are compelled to do so by force.

And that is simply not true.
Exactly.

These folks believe concrete only hardens when a man in a government costume pours it. It will remain soft and gooey if he's in his civies.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,350,188 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Some states are just...

...better than others.

I'll be happy to enlighten you on any number of other simplistic wrong-headed questions you may have.

Wrong as always Old Gringo but I like your consistency.

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Old 01-13-2018, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,453 posts, read 7,081,915 times
Reputation: 11699
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Our railroad system was built because of land grants gave to the railroads. Now you can argue that without the government the land doesn't have to be granted by the government but there would have been others that would have beat the railroads to the land.



I address this over and over and over and over. A toll is simply another word for a tax. There is no difference and we are not going to accept paying a toll upon every bridge we approach or new stretch of road. It's not going to happen.



No, people will not collaborate and cooperate. In our current system, if you want to be a part of it, you have no choice but contribute. That is no different than what you propose. Calling the system something else doesn't make it different.


A toll is a tax of sorts, but it is a voluntary tax, paid for in this case only by the people who actually use the bridge.

It's not a compulsory tax that must be paid by people who live hundreds or thousands of miles away and will never use it.

Voluntary "taxation" is fine under a Libertarian based economy.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,621,734 times
Reputation: 9676
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
The self-loathing amongst statists is painful to watch.
It's almost like they want themselves and their neighbors to fail just so they can prove they were right about needing the State all along.
Involuntary government is the worst thing to happen to freedom since...well forever.
All people need not be ashamed of being an individual and not involuntarily grouped into a collective.
It (freedom) is respected all over the world...if given the chance.
I gather you dearly wish you could start paying toll on roads as soon as you pull out of your drive and want to make monthly payments to private police and fire fighting companies. But woudn't that change still be the same as collectivism, only more voluntary?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,453 posts, read 7,081,915 times
Reputation: 11699
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
I gather you dearly wish you could start paying toll on roads as soon as you pull out of your drive and want to make monthly payments to private police and fire fighting companies. But woudn't that change still be the same as collectivism, only more voluntary?
You are hitting the nail on the head here in a way.

Maybe not literally. ...but the key to Libertarian philosophy is that participation in any type of agreement, including collective or "social contracts" must be voluntary .

The application of force upon someone who has broken no laws or has not unjustly applied force against you is a major no no.

The type of force is irrelevant.

Last edited by FatBob96; 01-13-2018 at 11:40 AM..
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,880,244 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
51% of millennials prefer socialism to capitalism; yet collectivism is essentially a discredited ideology that has failed time and time again. This is absolutely a necessary discussion.
That is because of the type of capitalism we have seen in our lifetime. That being crony capitalism. Just look at the tax law, unless the tax rates are frozen before Trump leaves office, the 99% will take the fall once Trump leaves office (if he gets re-elected which I doubt), the rich get it until the law is changed entirely. It is nothing but cronyism that hurts the working class while those at the top continue to get bonuses while they let go people and don't invest back into the company. Why American Airlines has to wait to low taxes to invest into AA when they current don't pay any taxes due to a loss several years ago, shows this broken capitalist system we have. We also know that for healthcare single-payer is the only option that will work to save our broken system that has been created and dismantled by crony capitalism.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,521,957 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Wrong as always Old Gringo but I like your consistency.

No, no no...

Some states truly ARE better.

YMMV

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Old 01-13-2018, 12:06 PM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Because I wasn't put on this earth to solve your problems. You weren't put on this earth to solve my problems.

If I wanted to take care of another living thing I'd pick a dog over you.

No offense. Just a preference.
This is why you will get nowhere. People rightly ignore rants with no solutions. In the end you are harmless.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:07 PM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Because the problems you list are more a product of your own mind and prejudices than they are based in reality.

Some people will find any excuse to justify their thought process, no matter how illogical or unproven it is.

You apparently believe that no one will ever do anything of value to society unless they are compelled to do so by force.

And that is simply not true.
There is a name for making up a position for me and then arguing against it.

None of my questions were answered.

Is this the Internet sweeps week?
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:09 PM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
A toll is a tax of sorts, but it is a voluntary tax, paid for in this case only by the people who actually use the bridge.
And people are going to stop at every bridge to pay this toll?

Quote:
It's not a compulsory tax that must be paid by people who live hundreds or thousands of miles away and will never use it.

Voluntary "taxation" is fine under a Libertarian based economy.
Libertarians are not anti-government. That is why they run for office.
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