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Old 01-14-2018, 11:52 AM
 
34,054 posts, read 17,071,203 times
Reputation: 17212

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post

When my ancestors came here in the 1840s, they either worked or they starved to death. If we want to go back to that, then fine. Let everyone in.

.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:57 AM
 
8,893 posts, read 5,371,263 times
Reputation: 5696
Quote:
Originally Posted by enraeh View Post
Let’s see.... 2018 minus 1883 equals 135 years. Lotta things can change in that amount of time. Is this a guilt trip to excuse bringing inbred rapists and/or yet more leaf blowers and toilet scrubbers to work for out of touch democrats?
I think it's convenient for those who think illegal immigrants are great. They will utilize the lotta things can change excuse when discussing getting rid of the 2nd Amendment.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:00 PM
 
62,952 posts, read 29,141,740 times
Reputation: 18584
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
That's exactly it. I'm 100% for open borders, but the forced welfare needs to go. Incentivize productive people to come here to escape taxation and regulation, rather than incentivizing the unproductive to come here for that stolen loot.

Unfortunately I think the culture has changed too much for that to happen by choice. It might need to happen after a major shakeup that forces people out of their comfort zone...like the government going bankrupt.

You're for open borders?
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You're for open borders?
I'm for no government borders anywhere, ideally. I'm for private property borders.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:12 PM
 
62,952 posts, read 29,141,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
I'm for no government borders anywhere, ideally. I'm for private property borders.

I see you haven't thought this through at all.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,610,392 times
Reputation: 29385
I don't get the mentality of my fellow Democrats on this. Do you not care about helping those who are already here, whether they were born here or not? We don't have unlimited jobs, unlimited resources.

You talk about the sonnet by Emma Lazarus as though we're the same growing country we were in 1903. The ideal expressed is a beautiful thing, but it's unrealistic in 2018. We cannot help everyone. You can pretend that we can all you want, but it illustrates a lack of common sense, at best. People cannot come here and get jobs sweeping manure off the streets or laying down railroad tracks as my grandfathers did when they arrived.

If you were real humanitarians you'd understand that with limited resources and jobs the best thing we can do is help fellow Americans become employable and then help them find work so they get off of welfare and out of poverty and crime-infested neighborhoods, giving them a chance at the American dream you so often talk about.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I see you haven't thought this through at all.
Guarantee I've thought it through more than you have, but thanks for the condescension.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:19 PM
 
22,472 posts, read 11,998,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
Guarantee I've thought it through more than you have, but thanks for the condescension.
No, you haven't thought it through.

Think about it. If we had open borders, we would be flooded with people from all over the world. How many people are too many for you? 1 billion? India has over 1 billion people. How's that working for them? Bangalore doesn't have enough potable water. Do you think that we have unlimited buildable land and an unlimited supply of potable water?

Taking away welfare won't stop unskilled, functionally illiterate people from coming here from the banana republics. What it would mean would be that more unskilled Americans would lose their jobs. How does that help anyone?
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
No, you haven't thought it through.

Think about it. If we had open borders, we would be flooded with people from all over the world. How many people are too many for you? 1 billion? India has over 1 billion people. How's that working for them? Bangalore doesn't have enough potable water. Do you think that we have unlimited buildable land and an unlimited supply of potable water?

Taking away welfare won't stop unskilled, functionally illiterate people from coming here from the banana republics. What it would mean would be that more unskilled Americans would lose their jobs. How does that help anyone?
Private property borders are the only legitimate borders. I decide who comes onto my property, and you decide who comes onto your property. If we don't own a property, we have no say over who moves there or not. I can't stop someone from moving into my neighborhood just because I think they'll make a negative contribution to it.

I assume your belief is that the ends justify the means. You're willing to violate the property rights of others if it achieves the outcome you want. If that's true, then just throw out any moral considerations and do whatever works best...kill them if you have to. I think that would be the most effective way to keep them from trying to move here. You should start doing that to people in your personal life too, because why not?
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:15 PM
 
22,472 posts, read 11,998,943 times
Reputation: 20393
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
Private property borders are the only legitimate borders. I decide who comes onto my property, and you decide who comes onto your property. If we don't own a property, we have no say over who moves there or not. I can't stop someone from moving into my neighborhood just because I think they'll make a negative contribution to it.

I assume your belief is that the ends justify the means. You're willing to violate the property rights of others if it achieves the outcome you want. If that's true, then just throw out any moral considerations and do whatever works best...kill them if you have to. I think that would be the most effective way to keep them from trying to move here. You should start doing that to people in your personal life too, because why not?


Our country has the right to decide who comes across its borders.

You are willing to violate the borders of our country if it achieves the outcome you want. Just throw out any moral considerations---which you have done, because allowing anyone to violate our borders isn't in any way, shape or form "moral". You have shown that you have no consideration for the citizens of this country.

The rest of your argument is nothing but a straw man. In other words, it's pure BS.

It's just despicable that anyone would want to be overrun with third world illegal aliens. Anyone who thinks that has no idea of the devastation that illegal immigration has caused. Nor do you have any idea as to what hyper immigration has done to negatively impact our natural resources.

No need to respond. Not only will I not read it but you will never get it as you have no compassion for the millions of suffering underemployed and unemployed American citizens.
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