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Old 01-18-2018, 08:08 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,624,265 times
Reputation: 18521

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speleothem View Post
You know that voting machines do not connect to the Internet, right?
Barack Obama stated in no uncertain terms that our vote cannot be hacked.

BlackBoxVoting.org

Vote fractioning.
It was widespread in the recent Alabama Roy Moore election.
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Old 01-19-2018, 07:18 AM
 
13,961 posts, read 5,625,642 times
Reputation: 8617
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
As a matter of fact, we didn't vote for Trump. Millions more people voted for Hillary Clinton no matter how many times pathetic Donnie claims otherwise.

Best case scenario, Trump won by a fluke of our system which privileges empty swathes of land above actual living voters who happen to live in population centers.

And worst case? Well, I guess we'll find out when Mueller finishes his work.
Trump didn't win by a fluke of our system, he won by a purposeful design of a federal constitutional republic. Read the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers.

A majority of states overturning a simple majority of the populous was built into the system specifically to negate mob rule. Much of the writing and speeches of the time of the Articles of Confederation vs Constitution struggle concerned itself with exactly that...how do the less populous and economically powerful states like the Carolinas remain on equal footing with the powerhouses of Massachusetts, Virginia and Pennsylvania? Getting those states on board wit retaining state sovereignty and equality in the electoral process was key in even adopting our Constitution.

The Electoral College delivering a majority of elector votes without a popular vote majority IS A FEATURE, NOT A BUG. Read a history book FFS.
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,202 posts, read 19,210,098 times
Reputation: 38267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Trump didn't win by a fluke of our system, he won by a purposeful design of a federal constitutional republic. Read the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers.

A majority of states overturning a simple majority of the populous was built into the system specifically to negate mob rule. Much of the writing and speeches of the time of the Articles of Confederation vs Constitution struggle concerned itself with exactly that...how do the less populous and economically powerful states like the Carolinas remain on equal footing with the powerhouses of Massachusetts, Virginia and Pennsylvania? Getting those states on board wit retaining state sovereignty and equality in the electoral process was key in even adopting our Constitution.

The Electoral College delivering a majority of elector votes without a popular vote majority IS A FEATURE, NOT A BUG. Read a history book FFS.
Some of us are capable of critical analysis and can read history and recognize that a couple of centuries later, this compromise system doesn't serve us as a nation as well as a bunch of rich white men who didn't want individual citizens to have any say at all in choosing a president may have hoped.
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Old 01-19-2018, 09:26 AM
 
13,961 posts, read 5,625,642 times
Reputation: 8617
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
Some of us are capable of critical analysis and can read history and recognize that a couple of centuries later, this compromise system doesn't serve us as a nation as well as a bunch of rich white men who didn't want individual citizens to have any say at all in choosing a president may have hoped.
Partisan myopia is not critical analysis, don't flatter yourself.

This is how federal republics work. This is why 51 senators can negate the will of 435 representatives, and 1 president can negate the will of 535 senators + representatives, and 38 states can tell the federal government to pound sand, and 5 of 9 judges can tell the executive and legislative branches "Wrong, do it again", etc, etc.

Tyranny of the majority was very specifically countered in our founding documents.

With that said, railing against the the Electoral College is the wrong direction to get what you want, which is a more accurate and fair representation between the EC and the population. Well, that would be nice, and in the "why does Norway have a budget surplus" thread, I mention one of the main reasons their government is more beholden to the wishes of their people - level of representation.

If we just use modern European countries and go with anywhere close to their level of representation in whatever they call their "people's house" (house of commons, parliament, whatever), a 1-to-100k rep-voter ratio is actually on the high end. For the US House, that would be ~3,000 reps. It would still be less than a third as representational as we were in the first 50 years of the republic, but much closer to what we should be in the "people's house."

This would mean the popular vote would much more closely resemble the electoral vote. It has a ton of other benefits as well, such as - diluting lobbyist influence to the point of insignificance, much closer representation at the local level, much more diverse range of thought within the House itself, as large factions would be much harder to cobble together, better turnover because a more accountable representative has a lower chance of lifetime incumbency, etc.

But in 1911 and then again in 1929, the money pot was sufficiently large that the greedy folks in Congress decided to cap how much they wanted to share with each other, so the number got capped at 435....when our population was a third of what it is now. As it stands now, the House is little more than a junior Senate, as average representation is 1 rep for every 750k citizens. It is no longer anything close to a house of commons, parliament, etc. We essentially have two House of Lords and no House of Commons.

Want less chance the EC screws you, then one or both of two things will help: 1) make the freaking US House bigger. 2) demand your state award their EC votes proportionally instead of WTA. Problem solved, and the states retain their sovereignty, as do their constituents.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:34 AM
 
59,056 posts, read 27,306,837 times
Reputation: 14285
What do you expect from lefty loony lib dem?
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