Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Who is at fault for the shutdown?
House/Senate Majority Republicans 138 37.50%
Democrats 171 46.47%
Both 59 16.03%
Voters: 368. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-21-2018, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,780 posts, read 18,119,168 times
Reputation: 14777

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
I was a teacher in CA for years and recognize as truth much of what was written in that post.
These facts and truths don't make it out to the public in the same amount as the democrat spin does.
I agree that we have heard this over and over again from different source. I also agree that it does not make it out to the public; perhaps it is time? It clearly shows a bias against legal immigrants and American citizens; why should we be responsible to pick up the tab?

That 'letter' also demonstrates that we have created a bureaucracy that creates more bureaucracy; it's a self feeding system that relies on our dollars (that we are too stupid to withhold). The bulk of compensation to these students should have fallen on the shoulders of the parents. We step in and provide everything these 'special' kids need and allow them to spend our dollars on whatever whims they see fit - like the cellphones (although we probably supplied some of those) and too much food. Of course we need more teachers, language teachers, social workers, lawyers, police, jails - most are public service jobs that devalue our currency. Of course the leaders need more money because they have more responsibility - great system!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-21-2018, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,519,507 times
Reputation: 24780
Lightbulb Not so typical

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
It is just typical politics. When things go good, you pat yourself on the back, when they go wrong, blame the other team. No owning the issue especially if it isn't a favorable stance.

What isn't "typical" is that the Pubs have this time inflicted their favorite tactic (shutdown) on themselves.

They're dumb, but amusing.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2018, 08:56 AM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,222,211 times
Reputation: 3935
There is much that is underlying within this "Government Shut Down... one has to think and think deeply to see the elements and to do so, one has to overcome their impulses of denial.


The damage to the United States Continues... under this Republican Trump Administration. But, American people must have faith that Hater's won't rule this nation!!! They will not return America to the vile of its past of segregationist ignorance, nor will it lead the people of American in the continuing pathway of being indentured unto the wealthy and misled by the politicians who are bought and paid for by the Corporate System via lobbyist and the criminality of selling out the voice of office for political contribution, so they can retain a seat in congress as a tool for their own "self enrichment".

We've seen the evil long enough, attacking anything and everything. The world knows of the racist ignorance of Trump and Republican, they saw his obsession with attacking everything Obama created and supported, they see the incessant string of racist and bigoted comments from Trump and the Low Life undignified dispositions of Republicans, over and over and over.

The Government Shut Down is exactly what is needed to make certain the world does not forget the madness and the vile of this Administration. The Raw Inhumanity is still existent in America, the same vile that gave this nation slavery, and the same vile that gave this nation segregation, the same vile that once attacked the Chinese after using them to build railroads, and the same vile used to attack Mexicans after using them as well to build things in America.

The anti immigrant movement is rife with a general right Wing white segment of society continually thinking and acting as if they think America belongs to white people.
The evil of the Right Wing White Mentality is on full display.

Today, the Asian Immigrants outnumber the Mexican-Latino tremendously, but because they are now nations known for having money and their countries are prospering, the Right Wing whites are ethnicity blind by money. As in history, the lust for money has blinded them from seeking the long history of their own inhumanity and vile done to others over many centuries. Yet, the majority of Immigrants continued to come from European White Ethnicity Dominated countries, and with them came every type and kind of violence and greed, along with every type of human abuse conduct. This nation has seen from such places the Nazi's, the The Bolsheviks, or Reds who ultimately became the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, yet... these charter types of white people in the early 1900's should have ushered in a curtailment of white people immigrating from various segments of Europe. But white Americans, being white blind, continued to assume that being white was all one had to be. No other ethnicity of Immigrants to America tried to do what white immigrants did, all other ethnicities came to respect the Constitution of America.
Even in America over the 100's of years, it has been "white Americans" who disrespected the Constitution, and tried to claim it was "only for them".
They dishonored the United States Constitution's own words for Centuries, until 1964's Civil Rights Act, and since then there has continually had to be more Civil Rights Acts, to manage by law that white people respect the Constitution, and respect it for All America People.

It's no wonder that Immigration items are at the center of the Government Shut Down, as again, its white people, who not only stand in the way, they fight against the Policies of this nation and its long standing immigration of people who are oppressed, and come to this country under duress from conditions in their own country.

The White Male in America has been a desecration against the Constitution in many ways, including how he has long mistred women's civil rights as a human being. From seeking her as his possession, and relegating her to submit to him, by prohibiting her at one time from owning property, from working, and still trying to force her to choose a mate, only by his dictates of who he thinks she should choose. Women today are standing up and speaking out, about the sexual abuses, of being encroached upon, put in self demeaning situations, having her job and opportunity repressed by white men, if she does not submit to his sexual advances, as if she is his possession to use at his whim.

No immigrants from Mexico have oppressed any women in America and certainly not white women, nor black women or Mexican women or any other woman. That's has been done to women by white men. It has been white men, who has continually thought he could "ration out rights" only when he thinks its' convenient for him and benefit him and his lust for material gains. Women are Marching and They are Speaking Out. They are doing it in every arena from the Political Circles to the Entertainment and Business Circles. They are doing it in the homes and ever place in America, that should be with full respect of person and the humanity of woman.

This shut down may appear to be about Mexican kids who came her as no fault of their own. It is connected the same as the marches on the 1 yr mark of the wanna be Tyrant Trump and the Womanizer Trumps Presidency.
If the Democrats allow this madness against the Dreamers, it will only embolden the Right Wing White Republican system to turn their focus again to methods and ways of Repressing women, all over again, and open them up to again target other groups as well. As that signal was sent, by Trump with his calling other nations "s---holes"... and telling members of congress that we don't need any more Haitians, that we need people from Norway, (as in saying "white people").

When the Women's movement come to term they must choose party for political power to gain their independence in America and their rights to the full benefits and protections of the Constitution, they will choose the Democratic Party.
As the Republican Party has continually shown it aims to impose its brand of containment, constrictions and restrictions of her, her body, and her choices. Trump rolled back the equal pay for women and that is only a first step in trying to recreate the past.
Today, women no longer are subjected to submit themselves to anything the white man chooses to do to her, as a means to be taken care of and provided a home. She now can earn and provide her own home. Many women today, have been left to raise her children alone, because she did not submit herself to being the passive and self defeating person, that white men had long grown not only to expect but to demand. She has long raised her children and been subjected to every kind of abusive encroachment and belittling one can imagine, because she will not submit herself to being the passive and self defeating person.

Again, in the under-currents of this Government Shut Down, all these things simmer... they may not be spoken of it the ways the lights have been focused, but they are part of the make up of the mentality of those who stand in the path of wanting to void out the Dreamers program.

When ones looks at the history of America, and the continual anguish, because so much of Right Wing White Society is anguished because they no longer have the "I'm White, I'm First Entitled to Everything"... and others can only have the scraps that whites did not want. The madness and blindness of white people many whom are right wing, use the greatest % of every form of government benefits, and then they want to deny benefits to every other, including single white women.

The last Government Shut Down was again a Republican led mess, of Tea Party Republican trying to deny Medical Programs that benefit ALL American people to have means for Medical Care. It was the same Republican and Right Wing, Tea Party and other Bigots who caused the price of insurance to increase and they spent 6 yrs trying by every means to do anything to defeat health care for American people. Decades Ago, they Busted Unions, trying to deny Union Benefits and Job protections from Minorities and women, including white women.. and in doing so... destroyed the 10's of millions who had medical insurance vial their job and union jobs. When that happen, the Medical and Insurance Community lost 10's of millions of participants, which caused them to raise their rates. But, at no time do the Right Wing white structure of Republican madness want anyone to tell such truths.
It was these same people who "told American's for the past 4 decades, that "American's could not compete"... it was told to american, because the Greed Driven Right Wing White Male Driven madness wanted to gain 300-3000% profit margins, at the expense of Every American on the Land of these United States.
When American had 70% corporate Tax, EVERYTHING in America Grew, The Unions were strong, and corporations made profits in the range of 40-50-60%... and because of Corporate Tax, they had to "invest in America" if they expected to gain tax relief to improve their profit margin. During that time, they invested in America. But when the Tax Rate was Reduced, they took that money and hid it off shore and ran to every poor country buying access so they could export industry for the pursuit of slave wage labor. As a result they decimated everything in America's Industrial Structure, and Caused long term damage to every aspect of America's Infrastructure, and Cut off the pathway to Middle Class Standards of 10's of millions of Americans, and thrust American into decline, and the mess we see today... of Immigration, is a direct result of that Greed and abuse by the wealthy who have bought and own the Right Wing Republican System. IT'S AN ATROCITY.

It has caused Economic Treason, and every elements of vile that comes within that sphere of influence.

So... people should realize there are many elements that are underlying within this Government Shut down. At at the root is again, the Right Wing White Segment of American Society, again trying to recreate a white dominance madness again in America.

It has alienated our Allies, damaged every aspect of American Diplomacy and now is pushing at damaging the global trade, as well as the global environment. While promoting discord in every segment of American society, pushing for some vain aim to return America to the vile of its own past.

We are a MULTICULTURAL NATION and the sooner we all accept that reality and work as American's we will prosper and we will progress... if we continue to try and defeat and deny our own Multicultural reality, we will spread discord and the despair which will continue to make mad men and fools of the segment of those who promote such madness. We live in a Multicultural World and the Economy now of every Nation is a Multi National Economy, which in simple terms is based on "A Global Economy".... the sooner we realize that, the sooner we are on the pathway to building a future that is beneficial to all.
Race Bias and Ethnicity Bigotry has no place in the Future !!!! Immigration is a global reality, it has existed since man could walk. And man has always had the capability to walk. Today, he can move by many means, and so does Immigration move by many means.

Trying to expel people to lands they have no knowledge of, is "evil" by any and every concept of such actions, especially people who have spent the span of their lives growing up in this nation as American value respecting people. It's as vile as breaking of families who have built their lives over decades in this nations living as Americans.

If we want to fix our immigration, we do it going forward, NOT going Backwards. We develop a path for citizenship for those that are already here, and we implement programs that screen and vet our future potential immigrants, not by race, or ethnicity or country of origin.. but by the values that make what is America and the values that or Declaration Was Established to Support and the values that are within the Preamble of Our Constitution. We don't manage our Immigration by manufacturing enemies, we do it by building friends. Those who don't meet the criteria, know they have not met it, and they will know their denial is not based on race, ethnicity, country of origin... Therefore, we don't discriminate and make enemies of people nor nations.

That vile comment by President Trump of calling nations "s---holes" was an insult to every American and a Detriment to the Nation of America and the values it was founded upon. The damages he has done in 365 days has been at a cost that may take us decades to deal with, and the damage to diplomacy is an atrocity that will take tremendous work to repair.

Trump can't do it, he does not have the knowledge to even know the value of our own State Department, and the necessity of our Ambassadors, if he did, all those positions would have been filled. he does not know or understand our Government, if he did, all our government positions would be filled. Trump, thinks he's the dictator of America, with his crazed comment, that He alone is who is important. Any person, who supports that madness is an enemy of America and a Combatant against our System of Government and a vile blemish upon and against our respect for the Humanity of Society.

American's better get over Greed Lust By Any Means, and look at the values and dignity of us as a Nation and As a People and support that as a first priority.

Our Government is Shut Down... by the madness of a Right Wing System, that wants to return us to some vile imagery and composition of a racist and bigoted past, that we invested much, to work ourselves away from.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2018, 09:08 AM
 
130 posts, read 122,856 times
Reputation: 78
The fact is, democrats care more about illegal aliens than they do the American people.

Friday at midnight, the U.S. government will shut down unless a funding bill can be passed by the Senate. The House passed a continuing resolution on Thursday which would fund the government for another four weeks. Senate Democrats are refusing to pass the bill, primarily because it does not include DACA, the program that would grant legal status to 800,000 illegal aliens and millions of their relatives.

A CBS news poll found that 57 percent of Democrats think it is worth shutting down the government in order to give the DACA illegals status. The Democrats are so extreme on this issue, that I have found myself agreeing with Paul Ryan, who said, “The only people standing in the way of keeping the government open are Senate Democrats. Whether there is a government shutdown or not is now entirely up to them.”
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2018, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,780 posts, read 18,119,168 times
Reputation: 14777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Here you go: much of it is false. This entire post is a chain email that started in 2006 (or earlier), and has added embellishing fiction as it keeps being resurrected and emailed around again. This is how disinformation and propaganda is spread.

"...This eRumor began circulating in 2006 at a time when there were public protests by immigrants and their supporters over proposed changes in Immigration law....

It is one of those forwarded emails that loses a lot of credibility because the writer didn’t identify himself or herself or what school was talking being described. It has to be classed as either opinion or fabrication because there is no way of authenticating what the person claims..."

https://www.truthorfiction.com/immigrants/
Even your link states that some of the letter is true. The section on supplying bilingual teachers is true. The section on supplying school meals is true. The section on supplying free medial care is true when you consider that all illegal immigrants will be treated at any hospital. It also states that other sections could be true with fraud. You heard from one school teacher that basically acknowledged some of the letter was true.

Where are the parent's responsibility's to their own kids? It is still about creating bureaucracy and spending money on those that had parents that broke our laws.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2018, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,249,351 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Even your link states that some of the letter is true. The section on supplying bilingual teachers is true. The section on supplying school meals is true. The section on supplying free medial care is true when you consider that all illegal immigrants will be treated at any hospital. It also states that other sections could be true with fraud. You heard from one school teacher that basically acknowledged some of the letter was true.

Where are the parent's responsibility's to their own kids? It is still about creating bureaucracy and spending money on those that had parents that broke our laws.
The point is that the fictional letter is used as a propaganda piece to influence people who can't be bothered educating themselves as to whether or not it is true. Hopefully we do not base laws on mythological emails.

As far as your question? This can be asked of many many American parents--citizens or otherwise, as many parents fall into that category. Illegal immigrants do not have a lock on bad parenting, and many are very good parents.

Free ER care means that someone doesn't pay the bill they are given. This is also true of many legal citizens without health insurance who use the ER (fewer since the ACA, but the numbers will pick up again when GOP repeals go into effect).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2018, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,780 posts, read 18,119,168 times
Reputation: 14777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
The point is that the fictional letter is used as a propaganda piece to influence people who can't be bothered educating themselves as to whether or not it is true. Hopefully we do not base laws on mythological emails.

As far as your question? This can be asked of many many American parents--citizens or otherwise, as many parents fall into that category. Illegal immigrants do not have a lock on bad parenting, and many are very good parents.

Free ER care means that someone doesn't pay the bill they are given. This is also true of many legal citizens without health insurance who use the ER (fewer since the ACA, but the numbers will pick up again when GOP repeals go into effect).
As far as your case with parental support from people legally in our Country: Most pay taxes and are part of the system. It is totally different than giving to people that we do not know and never gave permission to enter our Country.

As far as the ER care; the same response. Worse yet is how many hospitals have closed because they could not stay in business with this unwanted strain on the system.

Then, in conclusion, as far as the letter being propaganda or not propaganda - how many times have your liberals used unfounded accusations to 'prove' your points? In this case you have a half-truth which is better than an no-truth! Then, as far as the 'truth' part of the 'propaganda'; why don't Americans hear more about this drain on the system and how much it actually cost all of us?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2018, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,231,005 times
Reputation: 34038
Post Shutdown Poll:

"A 48 percent plurality says Trump and congressional Republicans are mainly responsible for the situation resulting from disagreements over immigration laws and border security, while 28 percent fault Democrats. A sizable 18 percent volunteer that both parties are equally responsible. Political independents drive the lopsided margin of blame, saying by 46 to 25 percent margin that Republicans and Trump are responsible for the situation."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.3faa0362a519
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2018, 09:48 AM
 
13,684 posts, read 9,002,120 times
Reputation: 10405
Quote:
Originally Posted by zlxt View Post
The fact is, democrats care more about illegal aliens than they do the American people.

Friday at midnight, the U.S. government will shut down unless a funding bill can be passed by the Senate. The House passed a continuing resolution on Thursday which would fund the government for another four weeks. Senate Democrats are refusing to pass the bill, primarily because it does not include DACA, the program that would grant legal status to 800,000 illegal aliens and millions of their relatives.

A CBS news poll found that 57 percent of Democrats think it is worth shutting down the government in order to give the DACA illegals status. The Democrats are so extreme on this issue, that I have found myself agreeing with Paul Ryan, who said, “The only people standing in the way of keeping the government open are Senate Democrats. Whether there is a government shutdown or not is now entirely up to them.”
Well, we may also claim that Republicans care more about the ultra-wealthy than they do the American people.

Recall that the 'big money' donors to the R's had made it clear (as admitted by several in Congress) that the donations will stop if the Tax Reform favoring the wealthy did not pass. It did pass. The wealthy have opened up the spigots.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0dc592a09697c

As to the Dreamers, I reject the notion that they are 'criminals'. American jurisprudence has always held that children lacked the ability to be held responsible for crimes (or enter into contracts, etc). DACA imposes certain limits, as we all know, for these children to be saved under that order.

We recently had a 39 year old man that had lived in this country for more than 3 decades deported, leaving his American wife and American children behind. DACA was not available to him. Yet, I am suspicious of any government that seemingly delights in dividing families.

It is not American.

It is not Christian.

It is Republican.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2018, 10:00 AM
 
8,060 posts, read 3,941,461 times
Reputation: 5356
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Post Shutdown Poll:

"A 48 percent plurality says Trump and congressional Republicans are mainly responsible for the situation resulting from disagreements over immigration laws and border security, while 28 percent fault Democrats. A sizable 18 percent volunteer that both parties are equally responsible. Political independents drive the lopsided margin of blame, saying by 46 to 25 percent margin that Republicans and Trump are responsible for the situation."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.3faa0362a519
That's not a post Schumer Shutdown poll.

It's last weeks (Jan 15-18) Wapo/ABC poll... a single question poll so bereft of context it's meaningless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:47 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top