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View Poll Results: Who is at fault for the shutdown?
House/Senate Majority Republicans 138 37.50%
Democrats 171 46.47%
Both 59 16.03%
Voters: 368. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-19-2018, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,508 posts, read 33,298,460 times
Reputation: 7622

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMS14 View Post
Do this and there will be no need for any wall. The Republicans claim undocumented workers are a big concern of theirs, but they won't do this. Why?
They are not undocumented workers. They are ILLEGAL workers.
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Old 01-19-2018, 02:24 PM
 
62,872 posts, read 29,110,011 times
Reputation: 18560
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
Funny--I can't remember either Democrats or Republicans (back when they were really Republicans and not rabid, mindless, right-wing, FOX-watching, bending-over-for-rich-people sociopaths) having a problem with Reagan's amnesty, or with the fact that illegal immigration intensified under Bush and Clinton.

But here's a little history lesson for you: Because of NAFTA, millions of Mexican farmers were starved out. They could no longer compete on the marketplace in their own country, since the importation and pricing of industrialized "farming" from the U.S. pushed them out. Having no way left to feed their families, they headed over the border. We (and the Mexican government) caused this problem; the people didn't. So put the blame where it really belongs.

NAFTA screwed us also. Why don't these Mexicans use the unlimited visas to come here to do farm work then? Why do they come illegally instead? Yeah, the blame is shared by a few and one of them is the illegal aliens themselves. They aren't the innocents in all of this either.
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Old 01-19-2018, 02:39 PM
 
62,872 posts, read 29,110,011 times
Reputation: 18560
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
What? What are you babbling about? You falsely accuse me of fabricating the numbers from the Bureau of Labor statistics and now you present some half-baked theory and demand I debunk it? Get real. If you want to peddle your nonsense, you can present it in readable form and find your own links to support it. Its not my job to do your homework for you. And until you do, its just your speculation and nothing more.


We are talking about passing a law to address DACA. The dubious claim that it was unconstitutional is moot in the context of that discussion. Good try at deflection, though.


Aaaaand for my final act, I present the tried and true "all polls that disagree with me are lies" argument. Its a personal favorite, I must admit.

Half baked theory? All you have to do is show me where all those Americans construction workers, etc. got their once good paying jobs back from illegal aliens and that will be the end of it. You know they didn't and I know it to. Therefore those statistics on unemployment have a grey area unless that's included so no need to brag about how low unemployment is when those workers have had to take lower waged jobs, quit looking for a job or are working two or more part time jobs.


There should be no law passing DACA. It's not in the best interests of our own citizens and rewards their parents for bringing them here illegally.


Same thing goes for liberals "all polls that disagree with them are lies" argument.
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Old 01-19-2018, 02:44 PM
 
62,872 posts, read 29,110,011 times
Reputation: 18560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partial Observer View Post
I'm not sure. Conservatives usually pick unborn fetuses over U.S. citizens, so I'm not really sure how sacrosanct citizenship is here. Is the correct answer: Fetuses > U.S. Citizens > illegal aliens?

Ridiculous analogy. Are these mothers going to lose their lives if they give birth? No, but the fetuses aka human beings will with an abortion.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:10 PM
 
Location: TUS/PDX
7,822 posts, read 4,562,395 times
Reputation: 8852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Provide a link that shows that all those American construction workers got their jobs back from illegal aliens and other blue-collared Americans for a fair rate of pay again. Show that most illegals left those jobs. An American working two part time jobs at a lower wage doesn't count.
Hope you don't mind paying a premium for that remodeling job when those illegal aliens are run out of town. Oh wait, you got all that extra cash from the tax reform bill, that should cover the additional costs. That puts you back to square one with the added joy of covering a trillion some dollar debt due in the future.

So happy you thought this thing out...
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:40 PM
 
62,872 posts, read 29,110,011 times
Reputation: 18560
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
You're going to have to do better than half-witted anecdotal evidence to support whatever point it is you're trying (and failing) to get across.

Can't respond to my points, I see. You know darned well that millions of American construction and other blue-collared workers have been displaced on their jobs by cheap, illegal aliens so I take the unemployment stats with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:44 PM
 
62,872 posts, read 29,110,011 times
Reputation: 18560
Quote:
Originally Posted by take57 View Post
Hope you don't mind paying a premium for that remodeling job when those illegal aliens are run out of town. Oh wait, you got all that extra cash from the tax reform bill, that should cover the additional costs. That puts you back to square one with the added joy of covering a trillion some dollar debt due in the future.

So happy you thought this thing out...

I've always made sure that anyone who did jobs for me were Americans and many were reasonable also. Some of that debt is due to the $100 billion year that illegal aliens cost us so no they are no bargain at all. Obviously it's you who hasn't thought it out except for saving a buck (of which you aren't really).
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Corrigan View Post
I used to be a Democratic voter......those days are gone now. There is no DACA Bill for them to even vote on, but they obstruct passing a Budget. I have a son in the military who now won't be paid. Are you kidding me? It takes 60 votes to pass a Funding Bill through the Senate; Democrats must step up. Resist is not the answer. Our security is at stake. Speaking of DACA/Dreamers, it is my understanding that there are @ 800,000 DACA people but if Dreamers are included the number is closer to 4,000,00. You can't vote on a Bill that doesn't yet exist; it's time to recognise that the Budget must be taken care of now(before midnight tonight); DACA has until March 5th.
That's a little silly, Trump can't even get all the Republican Senators to agree to vote on this. And this doesn't take care of the budget...we have been without a budget for four months and this CR doesn't get us any closer to one.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Can't respond to my points, I see. You know darned well that millions of American construction and other blue-collared workers have been displaced on their jobs by cheap, illegal aliens so I take the unemployment stats with a grain of salt.
So what you are saying is that Trump's BLS lies about unemployment numbers?
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I still see construction sites flooded with Hispanics whom I'm sure many if not most are working illegally.
Why are you so sure they are working here illegally, did you ask to see their birth certificate? There are literally millions of second generation adults in the US who had at least one undocumented parent, but you are claiming to be so wise that you can tell which construction workers were born in the US and which weren't?
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