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Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
This.
Again, it is an individual choice and it's chlorine in the gene pool. People want to ride the opiate train into the great beyond, who are we to stop them? They're going out happy.
Yeah, I'm sure people who become addicted taking prescribed medications just LOVE riding that train.
If nothing else this thread seems to prove those who believe America was founded on Christian principles are completely off base.
I guess the litmus test for Ohio councilman Dan Picard would be if his child, grandchild, wife or some other loved one overdose a third time. Would he stand next to them and tell paramedics or doctors to not treat, it's the third time they did this so we need to let them die. What do you think his decision would be?
This particular question is NOT remotely connected except regarding "WHAT would join a personal decision"?.. I say this because the ONLY people who can make any decision to NOT treat is whomever has POA over that person. HC workers do NOT have that RIGHT to decide!!
I recall numerous times in my 45 year HC experiences .. If ever being told "IF I believed something", then I could withhold CARE to anyone was NOT an option I would actually report it to the "POWERS that BE" !!
I experienced many situations like this..and YES it bothered me.. BUT, it did NOT STOP me from doing my best to save/assist in ALL cases. IF ANYTHING, I wanted the "Perp-Patient" to survive and JUSTICE to prevail !! Then of course accusations had yet to be proven in ANY COURT OF LAW.
I think people should ( especially any LEADER/Politician that makes law in ANY "Democratic" COUNTRY) realize, when you live in a country that has "RULE of LAW".. Then, it isn't anyone's individual RIGHT to be the JUDGE and JURY on anything!!! Opinions only shines a SPOTLIGHT of what's in their heart and soul!!!!
In a nutshell, he is basically telling EMT's/Paramedics to withhold NARCAN and supportive care for anyone caught up in the Drug Use Cycle!!
Thank God this Ohio Councilman has ZERO ability to make LAW on their own!!!!
I've been thinking about it and I don't think we should stop at the addicts or the overweight, the smokers or the drinkers. We should stop tying up ambulances and EMTs when it comes to people who drive under the influence, those who go over the speed limit, people who text, eat, or put on makeup while they drive, and anyone who is looking at his/her phone while crossing the street.
Yeah, I'm sure people who become addicted taking prescribed medications just LOVE riding that train.
75% of all the people who misuse and get addicted to opiates off prescription medication were taking someone else's prescribed medicine, and of all opiate addiction, over 90% have one or more childhood/young adult traumas and prior addiction issues prior to being introduced to opiates, prescribed or otherwise. The actual percentage of people get addicted to opiates as a result of an actual prescription for actual pain from surgery, chronic pain syndrome, etc is less than 1%.
And if they didn't love the train, they'd jump off. All not taking drugs requires is NOT DOING something. Same thing for losing weight, quitting smoking, etc. deal with whatever withdrawal happens, change some habits/behaviors and voila, you're clean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell
If nothing else this thread seems to prove those who believe America was founded on Christian principles are completely off base.
It isn't the job of a Christian to stop people from sinning. You can counsel them, point them towards the good Lord, you can explain how sin moves them farther away from the Lord, etc...but you cannot make someone stop sinning. That is their choice. G-d gives us all free will.
Addiction to drugs is simply one form of giving in to temptation. Giving in and not giving in to temptations are individual choices, always and forever.
We can't save them all and shouldn't spend too many resources trying. It's a harsh stance to take and most people wouldn't be able to take it but those same people don't want anyone institutionalized against their will either, even if it's to get them off drugs, because they have "rights". This leave everyone else to run around trying to take care of people who won't take care of themselves and that's not sustainable long term.
First to prove the addictiveness of drugs, a rat was placed in an empty cage with two water bottles - one was laced with heroin. After trying both, the rat continued to go back to the one laced with heroin until it overdosed itself and died.
But another psychologist (forgot his name) was taken back by one thing - the empty cage. So he tried a different experiment. A much bigger cage, with toys and diversions and other rats. The same waters bottle were fitted - one laced with heroin - and the experiment repeated.
This time, while the rats tried both, and would occasionally return to the water bottled laced with heroin, they would never OD.
I think drug addiction to the point of OD is a societal problem and not really a drug problem. It's not that certain drugs are so addictive it's that the people who get addicted to them often have nothing else going on in their lives. These people - without these drugs - may turn to other ills or even directly commit suicide.
This is the aspect of drug addiction that is never addressed. When one looks at the areas hardest hit by the opiate crisis they tend to be places where there is little opportunity for success. When one looks around and sees the factories and mines that used to support families are all closed and the only jobs available are low paying service work, it leads to a feeling of hopelessness. It's easy to fall into drugs when life seems bleak. We will not be able to stop the drug epidemic if we keep sending jobs overseas and refuse to invest in people through education and creating good jobs that allow one to see a future where they can raise a family and be productive citizens.
It's easy to villify the addict but most people simply do not understand the ease in which people can become addicted to opiates, it can happen very quickly. Most people do not plan on becoming addicts, they use to feel better and expect to be able to stop whenever they want. No one who hasn't been through it can ever understand the pain of withdrawal. These substances affect almost every aspect of the human body and withdrawal is agony. Imagine the worst flu you have ever been through, vomiting, diarrhea, sweating, agonizing body pain, hot/cold flashes, severe muscle weakness, unending restless legs, complete inability to sleep for days/weeks, all of that combined with soul crushing mental depression. Many addicts do commit suicide because they can't get through it. Opiate replacement therapy is very effective because it eases these symtoms and allows one to function but it's extremely expensive and requires access to healthcare, something many in these country lack.
NICE job of overlooking the fact many opioid addictions arise from poorly monitored, prescribed medical use.
The vast majority of people overdosing repeatedly were not prescribed them. They typically obtain and abuse them illegally.
And I'm not overlooking the carelessness by physicians either. I'm just saying that I wouldn't want to see someone who had a stroke die because emergency services were stretched too thin by people having their second, third, fourth or fifth opiate overdose.
Make Narcan readily available, and prioritise other types of emergencies when dispatching ambulances.
The question I have is how many times are we supposed to save someone who is hell bent on using and continues to OD. The NY Times ran a great article about a young man who has been an addict for over 20 years, has a lengthy criminal record, no job prospects, no money and overdosed 4 times in a single day. IMO this person and tens of thousands like him are lost causes. We have lost at least 2 generations to the epidemic. It's time to concern ourselves with the future generations and not allow them to become addicted to drugs or alcohol. It's a simple process of elimination. Cut the ones off that can not help themselves and much of the problem will correct itself.
Using drugs is a choice. I was orphaned by age 11 and was tormented in middle and high school, and my family shunned me because I left their cult church. I have never used illegal drugs, not one time. Sorry, but when bad people - like drug addicts - die it's a good thing for society.
Love this post. I never complain about my upbringing and personal struggles. You always hear losers and drug addicts blame the world. But no matter how bad you think you have it, someone somewhere has it worse off than you. Yet all of us must choose our way.
“Don’t go around saying that the world owes you something. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.”
Using drugs is a choice. I was orphaned by age 11 and was tormented in middle and high school, and my family shunned me because I left their cult church. I have never used illegal drugs, not one time. Sorry, but when bad people - like drug addicts - die it's a good thing for society.
Agree. Both of my parents were lifelong addicts who pretty much outright offered them to me for as long as I could remember. Didn't get enough sleep and have a test at school early tomorrow? Here's a little "pick me up" -dust off your nose after. Are you 7 years old and still sad about seeing a cat that was hit by a car on the road earlier that night? There are a bunch of sleeping pills on the nightstand. Take one to "get over it" and leave us alone.
Not only did I never take them up on their "kind" offers (to this day I have an aversion to taking any drugs at all, even harmless OTC drugs like Advil), I found myself constantly having to protect them from themselves. It wasn't fun having regularly to grab the wheel at 9 years old because my mother was driving us home at 2am on a school night high out her mind on at least 2 different substances. Or having to handle the rent and bills at 14 because they were always too hungover to get necessary errands done.
Of course, they never listened to me when I tried to get them to get clean and/or go to rehab. They were very lucky to have been able to live off of their parents' money, or they'd have been on the streets/in jail a long time ago.
By the time I was 17, I was done being their parent or anybody else's parent, moved out, worked my way through university, began my adult life and career - and never spoke to them again. If they or any other adult wants to ruin their own lives, it's not my problem. Sorry. I'm DONE.
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