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Old 01-22-2018, 08:58 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,873 posts, read 43,632,002 times
Reputation: 18494

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If you actually read the Bill of Rights and understand what they establish, you will understand why the word "people" appears and not the word, "citizen"
Even the 4th Amendment makes this clear and the reason the entire FISA and NSA is unconstitutional.
Only when we get into voting and who can hold office, do we see the word citizen used in the constitution.

When it says people, it does not mean ONLY citizens. It means ALL people anywhere in the world have inalienable rights, not given to a person by any other man.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:14 AM
 
14,159 posts, read 8,546,488 times
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"People" can also be interpreted as a collective or group. What you define as a group is bound by the world while in other interpretations it as bounded by this country.

This is why in the charter of the United Nation they use the plural form:

"We the peoples of the united nations determined..."

Because the United Nations is addressing multiple people (or multiple groups/collectives.. ie countries)

I'd be completely on board with your point if the 4th used the plural form of people:

"The right of the peoples to be secure in their person.."

but it does not....



Then there is a distinction between people and citizen. You can be a person (part of a people) in this country without being a citizen. Even then, that person (non-citizen) is still protected under the 4th.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:43 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,873 posts, read 43,632,002 times
Reputation: 18494
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
"People" can also be interpreted as a collective or group. What you define as a group is bound by the world while in other interpretations it as bounded by this country.

This is why in the charter of the United Nation they use the plural form:

"We the peoples of the united nations determined..."

Because the United Nations is addressing multiple people (or multiple groups/collectives.. ie countries)

I'd be completely on board with your point if the 4th used the plural form of people:

"The right of the peoples to be secure in their person.."

but it does not....



Then there is a distinction between people and citizen. You can be a person (part of a people) in this country without being a citizen. Even then, that person (non-citizen) is still protected under the 4th.


LOL! That is hilarious.

What is the plural persons?
Wait I thought people were persons.

ownership? peoples Sounds to mean everyone, unless you can define when people are no longer people and just a person. They are not called individual rights, for the sake of the collective. You as an individual are sovereign and must consent to be governed in the first place.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Florida
73,512 posts, read 42,847,064 times
Reputation: 13608
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
If you actually read the Bill of Rights and understand what they establish, you will understand why the word "people" appears and not the word, "citizen"
Even the 4th Amendment makes this clear and the reason the entire FISA and NSA is unconstitutional.
Only when we get into voting and who can hold office, do we see the word citizen used in the constitution.

When it says people, it does not mean ONLY citizens. It means ALL people anywhere in the world have inalienable rights, not given to a person by any other man.
Yes, all people residing in US (citizens and non-citizens), not people residing outside of US.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:52 AM
 
14,159 posts, read 8,546,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
LOL! That is hilarious.
Are you capable of having a rational debate without marginalizing others?

I gave you a rational explanation and an example (United Nations Charter) in its use. Its not healthy to have such a closed mind.

As for your person vs persons vs people... Its usage difference is that persons is used when there is a countable individuals within proximity of context. As in two persons. When the context is much larger as in population, we generally use people.

One online dictionary used the example "the peoples of Africa" Meaning all the people across all the countries in Africa.


PS> what it sounds to you is irrelevant.

Last edited by usayit; 01-22-2018 at 10:05 AM..
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:31 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,873 posts, read 43,632,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, all people residing in US (citizens and non-citizens), not people residing outside of US.
The Constitution establishes people had those rights before there was a USA.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:35 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,873 posts, read 43,632,002 times
Reputation: 18494
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
Are you capable of having a rational debate without marginalizing others?

I gave you a rational explanation and an example (United Nations Charter) in its use. Its not healthy to have such a closed mind.

As for your person vs persons vs people... Its usage difference is that persons is used when there is a countable individuals within proximity of context. As in two persons. When the context is much larger as in population, we generally use people.

One online dictionary used the example "the peoples of Africa" Meaning all the people across all the countries in Africa.


PS> what it sounds to you is irrelevant.
What, I cannot laugh at you? oh come on! that is the best part.

You forgot we are each sovereign individuals
People is the plural pf person. which as a texualist, means everyone.
When is a person no longer a person? When are people, no longer people? Incarceration? in Bondage? Dead?
Which one? There is a word called tyranny, if you happen to fall in those categories.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:37 AM
 
7,697 posts, read 4,450,161 times
Reputation: 7910
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
If you actually read the Bill of Rights and understand what they establish, you will understand why the word "people" appears and not the word, "citizen"
Even the 4th Amendment makes this clear and the reason the entire FISA and NSA is unconstitutional.
Only when we get into voting and who can hold office, do we see the word citizen used in the constitution.

When it says people, it does not mean ONLY citizens. It means ALL people anywhere in the world have inalienable rights, not given to a person by any other man.
All these spy programs were developed under the Bush Administration. The False Lies of the war on terror were designed to take our freedoms away in the exchange of "protection" against "islamic terrorism"...

Sadly it looks like these powers have and are being extensively abused to retain power by feuding government parties.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:40 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
67,188 posts, read 50,201,063 times
Reputation: 37928
Who changed the Constitution?


Nobody!

Some people just make a habit and a lot of noise misinterpreting it.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
32,765 posts, read 15,955,791 times
Reputation: 24369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyp25 View Post
All these spy programs were developed under the Bush Administration. The False Lies of the war on terror were designed to take our freedoms away in the exchange of "protection" against "islamic terrorism"...
No they weren't. The NSA, CIA, DEA, BATF, etc all existed prior. That being said, I hate the Patriot Act, and Homeland Security. Total over reach. It was a bipartisan effort. Most of the Dems, including Hillary, and Kerry voted for that crap.

Quote:
Sadly it looks like these powers have and are being extensively abused to retain power by feuding government parties.
Government agencies continue to abuse their power no matter what party is in control. They ALL love the power, and budgets.
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