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Putin is a Russian nationalist, he has a lot of shady connections and he has abused his own peoples rights. These are facts and they are undeniable. However none of this is our business or our concern, the people of Russia are responsible for holding thier leaders accountable to them.
As a nation we should attempt to work with Russia where our interest are common and we need to carefully guard our own interests against thier attempts to thwart those interests. The Russians have always been a difficult power to deal with going all the way back to the pre-Bolshevik days. It’s a complicated and even devious nation. However it’s also a fascinating nation. Only a fool would ever trust the Russians. Putin is not a “bad guy” but a representative of Russia and all that that entails.
The Buzzfeed article is great, independent, investigative reporting. We don't have State media in the United States. RT is, quite literally, Russian State media and is widely criticized by journalism scholars, NGOs, and others.
Russia has quality, independent journalists. They are frequently killed and/or jailed. Russia is one of the world's worst countries for press freedom. You should not trust Russian media.
US media is not controlled by the State. The results of US media and Russian media are extraordinarily different.
I don't trust russian media anymore than I trust american media. People get their news from "quality, independent source" that's just naive, there's no such thing. Everyone has an agenda from which their talking, I learned a while back to listen to information itself come from where it may, and evaluate myself rather than believing some are good, other bad sources. What I learned is that most say somethings that are true mixed with their influencing agenda, I dispense with the latter and take what I can from all sources.
Putin is a Russian nationalist, he has a lot of shady connections and he has abused his own peoples rights. These are facts and they are undeniable. However none of this is our business or our concern, the people of Russia are responsible for holding thier leaders accountable to them.
As a nation we should attempt to work with Russia where our interest are common and we need to carefully guard our own interests against thier attempts to thwart those interests. The Russians have always been a difficult power to deal with going all the way back to the pre-Bolshevik days. It’s a complicated and even devious nation. However it’s also a fascinating nation. Only a fool would ever trust the Russians. Putin is not a “bad guy” but a representative of Russia and all that that entails.
The common interests of the United States and Russia in 2018 are limited to arms control. On every other topic, the US & Russia are in opposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo
I don't trust russian media anymore than I trust american media. People get their news from "quality, independent source" that's just naive, there's no such thing. Everyone has an agenda from which their talking, I learned a while back to listen to information itself come from where it may, and evaluate myself rather than believing some are good, other bad sources. What I learned is that most say somethings that are true mixed with their influencing agenda, I dispense with the latter and take what I can from all sources.
Anna Politskaya was a great, independent journalist working in Russia. Then she was arrested. Then she was tortured. Then she was released. Then she was poisoned. Then she was murdered.
Dozens of Russian journalists have been murdered in the last 17 years. Russia is one of the world's most dangerous places for journalists.
All of the largest news outlets in Russia are owned by the State. This is not similar to the US press.
FYI, Lincoln was allied to Russia during his time. Russian Empire was allies with the United States during the Revolutionary War and allies with the Union during the Civil War. John Quincy Adams was one of the first US Ministers to Russia.
Russia was allied to the United States for well over a hundred years, from the very beginning until the Russian Revolution when United States army invaded Vladivostok.
Your references are all to Czarist Russia, not today's Russia with would-be Czar Vladimir Putin at the helm. Not sure of your point.
It's obviously in America's best interests, and has been for a long time, to maintain contact with Russia. That's a far cry from being like Russia or tolerating Putin-like corruption in our own elected leaders or our government agencies and institutions.
FYI, Lincoln was allied to Russia during his time. Russian Empire was allies with the United States during the Revolutionary War and allies with the Union during the Civil War. John Quincy Adams was one of the first US Ministers to Russia.
Russia was allied to the United States for well over a hundred years, from the very beginning until the Russian Revolution when United States army invaded Vladivostok.
This is not relevant to our situation today.
The Czars did not meddle in our elections. Lincoln didn't condone France's interference in Mexico, he sure as hell wouldn't tolerate Russia or anyone else interfering in our internal affairs.
No sir, there is no comparison. Lincoln would be appalled at what we have in the white house now, and shocked that the occupant claims to be a Republican.
The common interests of the United States and Russia in 2018 are limited to arms control. On every other topic, the US & Russia are in opposition.
Anna Politskaya was a great, independent journalist working in Russia. Then she was arrested. Then she was tortured. Then she was released. Then she was poisoned. Then she was murdered.
Dozens of Russian journalists have been murdered in the last 17 years. Russia is one of the world's most dangerous places for journalists.
All of the largest news outlets in Russia are owned by the State. This is not similar to the US press.
Do you know the other places? They are mainly u.s. allies. Business insider has a top 10 list of the most dangerous countries for journalists. 3 are at war, iraq, syria and somalia, you have russia and the other 6 are u.s. allies, Why do we only hear only about russia? Propaganda. Same goes for other misinformation.
I don't like to read buzzfeed because they are known for spreading fake news, and their narrative has a mood I dislike, but some good info can be found everywhere. The reasons for Britain’s reticence, they said, include fear of retaliation, police incompetence, and a desire to preserve the billions of pounds of Russian money that pour into British banks and properties each year.
They don't want to investigate and take actions on the russians crimes in the uk because it's not good for business. How transparent and democratic of them!
Do you know the other places? They are mainly u.s. allies. Business insider has a top 10 list of the most dangerous countries for journalists. 3 are at war, iraq, syria and somalia, you have russia and the other 6 are u.s. allies, Why do we only hear only about russia? Propaganda. Same goes for other misinformation.
I don't like to read buzzfeed because they are known for spreading fake news, and their narrative has a mood I dislike, but some good info can be found everywhere. The reasons for Britain’s reticence, they said, include fear of retaliation, police incompetence, and a desire to preserve the billions of pounds of Russian money that pour into British banks and properties each year.
They don't want to investigate and take actions on the russians crimes in the uk because it's not good for business. How transparent and democratic of them!
This thread is about Vladimir Putin. It should not be surprising that Russia is under discussion.
So now you agree the Buzzfeed article I offered was excellent? Good. You have to exercise judgment when encountering news content. It is not enough to rely on the masthead in the internet age.
Your Business Insider list is not actually a Business Insider list. It is data from the Committee to Protect Journalists that was originally used by Reuters to compile the lists that are reprinted in your link. The BI author offered about 12 sentences of content added to the list.
This thread is about Vladimir Putin. It should not be surprising that Russia is under discussion.
So now you agree the Buzzfeed article I offered was excellent? Good. You have to exercise judgment when encountering news content. It is not enough to rely on the masthead in the internet age.
Your Business Insider list is not actually a Business Insider list. It is data from the Committee to Protect Journalists that was originally used by Reuters to compile the lists that are reprinted in your link. The BI author offered about 12 sentences of content added to the list.
I didn't say it was excelent, it has a couple of good points that actually contradicts the main point of the article which is to portrait russia as a murderous state while stating at the same time that the uk has no intention of stopping the crimes in their own territory for fear that their business friends in russia might not like it.
I know the list was not made by business insider, they are one of the outlets presenting it, and that is what was meant when I said "they have a list." Instead of picking on the exact wording of the comments, Why don't you say something about the double standards in practically every news about russia?
I didn't say it was excelent, it has a couple of good points that actually contradicts the main point of the article which is to portrait russia as a murderous state while stating at the same time that the uk has no intention of stopping the crimes in their own territory for fear that their business friends in russia might not like it.
I know the list was not made by business insider, they are one of the outlets presenting it, and that is what was meant when I said "they have a list." Instead of picking on the exact wording of the comments, Why don't you say something about the double standards in practically every news about russia?
The main point of the Buzzfeed article is that Russia is killing a bunch of people in the UK and the UK is not doing anything about it even though US & UK intelligence services are exchanging information tying the killings to Russia's government & mafia. It's a six-part report following a bunch of leads, tracing assassinations & shady characters across many years. It is excellent investigative reporting.
If you realize that your Business Insider link offered no notable original content, then why did you indicate that "I like busines insider" in a post before sharing a Business Insider link? Good content can be found on Business Insider--Natasha Bertrand has been excellent covering the Russian election interference stories:
Business Insider also publishes a bunch of junk, like listicles. In this way, it's like most media outlets today: there is quality content and rubbish: it is incumbent on the reader to exercise judgment.
What do you purport to be the "double standards in practically every news about Russia?" That it is a State built on corruption and mineral extraction, without a commitment to democracy or press freedom? That is just accurate description.
The main point of the Buzzfeed article is that Russia is killing a bunch of people in the UK and the UK is not doing anything about it even though US & UK intelligence services are exchanging information tying the killings to Russia's government & mafia. It's a six-part report following a bunch of leads, tracing assassinations & shady characters across many years. It is excellent investigative reporting.
If you realize that your Business Insider link offered no notable original content, then why did you indicate that "I like busines insider" in a post before sharing a Business Insider link? Good content can be found on Business Insider--Natasha Bertrand has been excellent covering the Russian election interference stories:
Business Insider also publishes a bunch of junk, like listicles. In this way, it's like most media outlets today: there is quality content and rubbish: it is incumbent on the reader to exercise judgment.
What do you purport to be the "double standards in practically every news about Russia?" That it is a State built on corruption and mineral extraction, without a commitment to democracy or press freedom? That is just accurate description.
If you can't see the double standard I can't helped you, I already pointed them out, but I'll go over it again.
The uk isn't doing anything aboutt these crimes to maintain the flow of russian money into england. To pretend to care about justice and yet do nothing other than portrait russia as an evil regime is hypocritical. Moreover, to denounce corruption in russia, when corruption is essentially legal in the u.s. just by calling it lobbying is again a double standard. Another thing, pretending to be the leader of democracy while at the same time meddling in just about every foreign election and supporting monarchies and dictatorships and coups non-stop to the present day. I could go on, I doubt you can even understand what I'm talking about.
To answer your question about BI, they are good when it comes to the economy, useful info when you need to "follow the money". As for russian collusion, that's just one more disinformation campaign in the effort to artificially create endless confrontation. This is what makes possible the continuing existence of the military industrial complex with all the intelligence agencies, plus independent contractors.
Last edited by thelogo; 02-01-2018 at 06:28 PM..
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