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Old 01-28-2018, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista
2,471 posts, read 4,017,847 times
Reputation: 2212

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Dreamers are by definition, individuals who have never committed a crime and have grown up in America and been educated in American schools.

While I don't necessarily agree with most conservative immigration policies, I can at least understand the point of view. But the fight over the dreamers doesn't make a bit of sense, and I think that's the reason over 30 Republican Congressmen disagree with the larger stance of their party and support a pathway to citizenship.

I get not wanting to pay for people who came her illegally, who have manipulated the system, etc. But in the case of the dreamers, they came here as innocent children and at this point we've already paid to educate them. They've all either on their way or already are, educated adults who have never committed crime since arriving in the USA. In other words, they are worth money to our economy. Whether we wanted to or not, we've invested in these individuals and they're all set up to be a positive force on the economy.

If you wanted to kick these people out, the time to kick them out was just as they arrived here. Not after we already invested money into their educations. Why should we educate these people, set them up for a successful life and then boot them out for another country to reap the benefits of our investment?

Forget compassion. Just think of the simple dollars and cents. You don't buy a property, invest in it, improve it, and then just give it away for free. Why should you do this with people?

So if it makes economic sense, it's the compassionate thing to do and a bunch of republicans already support a pathway to citizenship, why do so many republicans and Trump still oppose a pathway to citizenship for dreamers?

The only reasons I can think of is that they're racist or not terribly bright.. or both.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:11 AM
 
8,886 posts, read 5,368,429 times
Reputation: 5690
I didn't buy this property. It was dumped on me by irresponsible parents.

I'll do a pathway to a green card. Citizenship? No way. Keep that for people who have played by the rules. No chain migration, either Make sure the illegal parents are deported.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:11 AM
 
Location: San Diego
18,725 posts, read 7,604,328 times
Reputation: 14998
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
Dreamers are by definition, individuals who have never committed a crime and have grown up in America and been educated in American schools.
So I'm a "Dreamer"? I qualify on all counts you named.

Any chance you left out an important qualification?

Naw, you would never do anything like that, and deliberately mislead the reader.

Would you?

BTW, these "dreamers" already have a path to citizenship: The same one ever other person from a foreign country has. Go back to your country and fill out an application for a U.S. visa. Then when that comes through, fill out another application, this time for citizenship.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:14 AM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,908,243 times
Reputation: 4942
DACA is a nonpartisan issue - why it continually gets spun as one is confusing.

Americans support it. Even Republicans and Trump voters.


Poll: Nearly 9 in 10 want DACA recipients to stay in US | TheHill

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-am...cbs-news-poll/

Poll: Two-thirds of Republicans back citizenship for DACA recipients | TheHill

https://www.axios.com/majority-of-tr...d3995c539.html
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:14 AM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,870,334 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
Dreamers are by definition, individuals who have never committed a crime and have grown up in America and been educated in American schools.

While I don't necessarily agree with most conservative immigration policies, I can at least understand the point of view. But the fight over the dreamers doesn't make a bit of sense, and I think that's the reason over 30 Republican Congressmen disagree with the larger stance of their party and support a pathway to citizenship.

I get not wanting to pay for people who came her illegally, who have manipulated the system, etc. But in the case of the dreamers, they came here as innocent children and at this point we've already paid to educate them. They've all either on their way or already are, educated adults who have never committed crime since arriving in the USA. In other words, they are worth money to our economy. Whether we wanted to or not, we've invested in these individuals and they're all set up to be a positive force on the economy.

If you wanted to kick these people out, the time to kick them out was just as they arrived here. Not after we already invested money into their educations. Why should we educate these people, set them up for a successful life and then boot them out for another country to reap the benefits of our investment?

Forget compassion. Just think of the simple dollars and cents. You don't buy a property, invest in it, improve it, and then just give it away for free. Why should you do this with people?

So if it makes economic sense, it's the compassionate thing to do and a bunch of republicans already support a pathway to citizenship, why do so many republicans and Trump still oppose a pathway to citizenship for dreamers?

The only reasons I can think of is that they're racist or not terribly bright.. or both.
I don't think Trump opposes citizenship for DACA. The reason to oppose citizenship for illegals is they stayed here illegally and deserve nothing. They are not the American dreamers and sweethearts you are making them out to be. They are net Democrat voters, counter-voters, counter-culture and competitors for American resources and opportunities.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista
2,471 posts, read 4,017,847 times
Reputation: 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
So I'm a "Dreamer"? I qualify on all counts you named.

Any chance you left out an important qualification?

Naw, you would never do anything like that.

Would you?

BTW, these "dreamers" already have a path to citizenship: The same one ever other person from a foreign country has. Go back to your country and fill out an application for a U.S. visa. Then when that comes through, fill out another application, this time for citizenship.
I assumed anyone with half a brain knows that a dreamer is someone who came to America as a child illegally. The parts about them being educated and having never committed a crime seems less common knowledge considering the inaccurate way they are often portrayed.

Again. They didn't make the choice to come here. We already paid to educate them. Sending them away is bad for business. So to send them away even though it hurts our economy is vindictive and probably racist.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:18 AM
 
16,579 posts, read 8,600,121 times
Reputation: 19403
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
Dreamers are by definition, individuals who have never committed a crime and have grown up in America and been educated in American schools.

While I don't necessarily agree with most conservative immigration policies, I can at least understand the point of view. But the fight over the dreamers doesn't make a bit of sense, and I think that's the reason over 30 Republican Congressmen disagree with the larger stance of their party and support a pathway to citizenship.

I get not wanting to pay for people who came her illegally, who have manipulated the system, etc. But in the case of the dreamers, they came here as innocent children and at this point we've already paid to educate them. They've all either on their way or already are, educated adults who have never committed crime since arriving in the USA. In other words, they are worth money to our economy. Whether we wanted to or not, we've invested in these individuals and they're all set up to be a positive force on the economy.

If you wanted to kick these people out, the time to kick them out was just as they arrived here. Not after we already invested money into their educations. Why should we educate these people, set them up for a successful life and then boot them out for another country to reap the benefits of our investment?

Forget compassion. Just think of the simple dollars and cents. You don't buy a property, invest in it, improve it, and then just give it away for free. Why should you do this with people?

So if it makes economic sense, it's the compassionate thing to do and a bunch of republicans already support a pathway to citizenship, why do so many republicans and Trump still oppose a pathway to citizenship for dreamers?

The only reasons I can think of is that they're racist or not terribly bright.. or both.


Why do you envision only "innocent children" when talking about illegal aliens, or so called "dreamers". Many will try to claim they were brought as babies, when they were adults themselves or old enough to shave.
Some stats of their crime rates and poor education levels are being ignored or suppressed by the MSM because it does not fit their ideological narrative/agenda.
Some are an American nightmare taking our resources, and giving us little in return. Sure there are plenty of good immigrants in Americas history, but they typically came here legally to start with, and wanted to assimilate into our culture. This current crop disrespect our laws, have little to no desire to assimilate, and demand "their rights".
That is not a recipe for future success.


`
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:19 AM
 
34,037 posts, read 17,056,322 times
Reputation: 17198
My hunch is all it takes is full wall funding, passing the RAISE Act, and a end to chain migration to get a deal on the portion of DACA kids with absolutely NO criminal record, all taxes paid to date.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:19 AM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,870,334 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
I assumed anyone with half a brain knows that a dreamer is someone who came to America as a child illegally. The parts about them being educated and having never committed a crime seems less common knowledge considering the inaccurate way they are often portrayed.

Again. They didn't make the choice to come here. We already paid to educate them. Sending them away is bad for business. So to send them away even though it hurts our economy is vindictive and probably racist.
Nothing you're claiming is very verifiable. Some of them came without parents, some might've asked their parents to bring them etc. the bottom line is most are adults and continued to stay illegally. Just because you paid to educate someone doesn't mean they are worth keeping let alone being given citizenship. It's just a sunk cost. Cut our losses by giving them no more benefits.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista
2,471 posts, read 4,017,847 times
Reputation: 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minethatbird View Post
I didn't buy this property. It was dumped on me by irresponsible parents.

I'll do a pathway to a green card. Citizenship? No way. Keep that for people who have played by the rules. No chain migration, either Make sure the illegal parents are deported.
Ok. So you didn't buy a property. It was dumped on you by irresponsible parents. You still rehabbed the property whether you knew it or not. Now that you've found out about the house your already paid for, you want to give it away for free?

A green card is a path to citizenship, so I don't exactly get your distinction. I don't think anyone thinks these people should just become citizens. A green card is a legal pathway to citizenship. Dreamers should definitely have to complete that pathway just like anyone else who gets a green card and they should honestly have to complete an additional pathway just to get the green card, to ensure these kids stay on the right path for a long time and prove they deserve citizenship. But again, kicking them out is stupid.
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