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That sells more automobiles, various foods, and other consumer goods than it does flu vaccine.
I understand that you do not think the flu vaccine is necessary and that if people in your family gets the flu you will nurse them back to health.
The infectious disease experts prefer that as many people as possible be prevented from getting the flu. Then they not only do not need to be nursed back to health, they are not spreading it to other people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Do we really need a daily reminder?
Why not? Perhaps some people who are not anti-vaccine but who had not bothered to get the vaccines will do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Lab confirmed flu deaths are only accounted for in children. The numbers are questionable and controversial when applied to adults without confirmation. Approximately 40,000 people died in car accidents in 2016 so not exactly close to the average estimate of flu deaths.
I don't have time to google sources but even though this is Huff Post, it does a pretty good job of discussing why flu death estimates are controversial at best. Don't Believe Everything You Read About Flu Deaths
As for your last sentence, are you saying that you agree that the news surrounding flu is meant to scare people into getting vaccinated?
Adult flu deaths are only controversial for people who cannot understand the statistical methods used in arriving at the estimates.
Why does someone have to be "scared" into deciding to take the flu vaccine? Perhaps you do not want to believe that people may use the information they hear on the news to make an informed decision to vaccinate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Roughly half the us population gets their flu vaccine so there is quite the market if in fact the op's premise is correct and this media coverage was a calculated push to scare people into getting vaccinated.
Do you honestly believe that news reports about flu are a conspiracy to sell more flu vaccine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
I never said it bothers me. I'm just discussing the topic.
About half of the population does not vaccinate for the flu so it's not like my decision regarding this health care decision is unusual. I don't care what others choose to do in terms of getting or not getting the flu shot.
You have tap danced around the question. If the news reports do not bother you, why do you not want the news reports to be made?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Or they make money off both ends. First with the vaccine, then when people still get the flu, Tamiflu.
Then you look at the conflicts of interest and you wonder if we'll ever get an honest, unbiased answer about what is really going on.
We'll never get the truth when the studies come straight from the pharmaceutical companies or from those who get money from pharmaceutical companies so people are left to speculate based on the available information.
They would make more money off Tamiflu if no one took the flu vaccine at all.
The body of science based evidence does not support a link between vaccines and autoimmune disease.
Every medical science article published these days will list potential conflicts of interest. A potential conflict is not proof of an actual conflict. Can you point out in the Lancet article anything that was actually biased?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Lol. People are well aware that it is flu season. It happens every single year without fail. The vaccine is marketed in every pharmacy in town which includes grocery store pharmacies so I also think people are aware that there is a flu shot available this time of year.
That means the news media should not remind anyone that flu season is here and advise getting the vaccine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
The Cochrane Review included 15 studies that were industry funded in their review because those studies met the criteria of being well designed and conducted.
People who quote Cochrane do so because it's one of the most unbiased, reputable sources of information for people who want that.
Here's what the Cochrane Review found regarding flu vaccine.
And this:
There are few studies about autoimmune disease and vaccines, which is what I was talking about in my post that you quoted.
The Cochran reviews by Tom Jefferson on flu are biased, and he has been criticized for it by reputable infectious disease experts who have detailed the specific biases.
He also has a real conflict of interest: he has testified in lawsuits about Tamiflu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
There is a big gap between never and the daily reminders that are currently happening via the news.
Someone thinks flu is newsworthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
According to the review of available evidence, that is true. Someone else brought up the concern over autoimmune disease and vaccines and the evidence is very limited and conflicting in that area so there are still a lot of unknowns.
Also keep in mind that people have different ways of looking at health, their immune system, vaccines, etc. because of that approaches to health vary. That should be ok, I would think.
Right and the media also likes to keep it's advertisers happy and pharmaceutical companies are very good clients when it comes to paid advertisements on TV. I've noticed an especially large amount of pharmaceutical commercials during the nightly news.
The body of evidence of studies in humans does not support vaccines as a cause of autoimmune disease.
Anyone is free to decline any and all vaccines, including flu vaccine. If you do not want to vaccinate, don't. If you do not want to hear about flu on the nightly news, don't listen. News reports are not advertising.
The news, magazines and newspapers have all kinds of stuff that does not interest me, but I realize that it is not written for me personally. I ignore what news does not interest me, and read what does.
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Yes I'll let me friend who got Gulliume Barre and was hospitalized for 10 days as a DIRECT RESULT of getting a flu shot that Katarina Witt on CD said no one gets any serious adverse events ever.
Perhaps you'd like to pay her imaginary hospital bill???
The risk of Guillain Barre after flu vaccine is about 1 in a million. The risk of Guillain Barre after an influenza infection is about 16 in a million. If you do not want to have Guillain Barre, you are 16 times safer by taking the vaccine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
According to your statement, you think the media "made a mess"? How? Everything you wrote was factual. It was reported. And they STILL are HYPING vaccine.
Flu season lasts 20 wks. We are at the VERY END of it. And they are STILL HYPING it.
I think you are taking issue with the facts. A lot of people are. They don't like the facts this year.
Not liking a fact doesn't make it untrue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Are there any statistics that show fewer people received the shot this year?
For the last few years it has hovered at about 59% of adults getting the flu shot. It's been stagnating, so the constant bombardment with advertising has to be expected. They need to get more people to get the shot.
I would bet that this season it's higher, not lower, even though efficacy is crap, because of all the advertising. My local CVS and Walgreens have had the Flu Shots Here signs up for months.
You can't drive down the street and NOT see signs to GET YER FLU SHOT.
You can't look at the internet and not see/hear GET YER FLU SHOT.
You can't watch the news and not see/hear GET YER FLU SHOT.
It's more widespread than the advertising the presidential candidates did here.
You might want to give up on the "it's not that bad" meme. This year is just starting to peak, as the CDC chart that Mikala posted demonstrates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Its an average year for deaths. No more, no less even though this year's vaccine efficacy is GARBAGE.
The virus is also not dangerous when it's not dangerous. And the virus also doesn't care if you get the flu shot or not. But the CDC sure does (it holds patents for 30+ vaccines and makes money off them, conflict of interest MUCH?), and the news is actively ADVERTISING the product.
Does the news make money by advertising?
It is not an average year, and since flu can make people extremely ill and kills a significant number of them, it is dangerous.
The CDC owns no patents on actual vaccines. It has patents on some technology used in making vaccines.
"It’s almost impossible for one patent to give all the intellectual property to manufacture one vaccine. You need dozens of patents.
A patent does not give you the right to manufacture a vaccine.
The CDC’s patents bring in less than 0.1% of their budget. That does not qualify as a financial partnership with anyone, including Big Pharma."
Also, the money from the patents is invested back in research. People at CDC do not get to spend it on themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Your analogy is not comparable. I can cross anywhere I want because I can see when/if a car is coming, crosswalk or not, and protect MYSELF.
The CDC and the local health department suggest everyone who can get a shot does." That's an advertisement. They are telling you to go and get a PRODUCT. Everyone in the US is aware there are flu shots. Everyone. EVERYONE. There is no need to repeat this mantra day after day after day after day. It's advertising [and brainwashing,as well, which is what good advertising does, makes you believe that you cannot LIVE without product XYZ.]
And I don't care if the CDC makes 50 cents or 50 billion dollars. It is a conflict of interest. Anyone with two brain cells can see this. They hype up a disease, get news media on board and by golly LOOK they also have the patent. GO git yer shot. $$$$ conflict of interest. Period. Wrong. Very wrong. Very really wrong, deceptive practice. WRONG.
So news media are paid to tell people to get the flu vaccine during the broadcast where it appears as NEWS and not ADVERTISEMENTS? Is that what you are saying? And that's OK? To get paid to advertise a product during the news and treat it like news?
Why are you so terrified of the flu? Why do you think the only way you won't die is if you have a shot?
CDC does not own the rights to make any vaccine. They do not make any money from sales of vaccines, so this whole post is based on misinformation.
Why are you so terrified that people may listen to a news report and make an informed decision to get a flu shot?
Your analogy is not comparable. I can cross anywhere I want because I can see when/if a car is coming, crosswalk or not, and protect MYSELF.
The CDC and the local health department suggest everyone who can get a shot does." That's an advertisement. They are telling you to go and get a PRODUCT. Everyone in the US is aware there are flu shots. Everyone. EVERYONE. There is no need to repeat this mantra day after day after day after day. It's advertising [and brainwashing,as well, which is what good advertising does, makes you believe that you cannot LIVE without product XYZ.]
And I don't care if the CDC makes 50 cents or 50 billion dollars. It is a conflict of interest. Anyone with two brain cells can see this. They hype up a disease, get news media on board and by golly LOOK they also have the patent. GO git yer shot. $$$$ conflict of interest. Period. Wrong. Very wrong. Very really wrong, deceptive practice. WRONG.
So news media are paid to tell people to get the flu vaccine during the broadcast where it appears as NEWS and not ADVERTISEMENTS? Is that what you are saying? And that's OK? To get paid to advertise a product during the news and treat it like news?
Why are you so terrified of the flu? Why do you think the only way you won't die is if you have a shot?
There is plenty of research proving it is safer to cross at a crosswalk.
Having worked at several local health departments, I can tell you, they have virtually no advertising budget. Anything that gets into the media is a public service announcement. I have never seen a commercial for the CDC, either. Presumably the CDC does send out press releases. How do you think the media gets any of its news? Does your local media not have newstips lines that you can call to report something?
This has been a worse than usual flu year.
"The overall hospitalization rate is higher than the overall hospitalization rate reported during the same week of the 2014-2015 season; the most severe season in recent years. . . For the week ending January 27, the proportion of people seeing their health care provider for influenza-like illness (ILI) was 7.1%, which is above the national baseline of 2.2% and is the highest ILI percentage recorded since the 2009 pandemic. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/summary.htm
Adult flu deaths are only controversial for people who cannot understand the statistical methods used in arriving at the estimates.
No, not really and it isn't that difficult to understand why the numbers are controversial if one is honest.
Quote:
The body of science based evidence does not support a link between vaccines and autoimmune disease.
Body of science makes it sound like there have been a lot of studies on this of autoimmune disease and vaccines. There are very few studies on this. There are a lot of unknowns.
Quote:
The Cochrane reviews by Tom Jefferson on flu are biased, and he has been criticized for it by reputable infectious disease experts who have detailed the specific biases.
He also has a real conflict of interest: he has testified in lawsuits about Tamiflu.
I can't find anything about this other then some editorials written by bloggers. Opinion based articles with no evidence proving he is biased. I also can't find anything showing that he testified against Tamiflu. Please share the info.
Last edited by MissTerri; 02-07-2018 at 03:27 PM..
Your analogy is not comparable. I can cross anywhere I want because I can see when/if a car is coming, crosswalk or not, and protect MYSELF.
The CDC and the local health department suggest everyone who can get a shot does." That's an advertisement. They are telling you to go and get a PRODUCT. Everyone in the US is aware there are flu shots. Everyone. EVERYONE. There is no need to repeat this mantra day after day after day after day. It's advertising [and brainwashing,as well, which is what good advertising does, makes you believe that you cannot LIVE without product XYZ.]
And I don't care if the CDC makes 50 cents or 50 billion dollars. It is a conflict of interest. Anyone with two brain cells can see this. They hype up a disease, get news media on board and by golly LOOK they also have the patent. GO git yer shot. $$$$ conflict of interest. Period. Wrong. Very wrong. Very really wrong, deceptive practice. WRONG.
So news media are paid to tell people to get the flu vaccine during the broadcast where it appears as NEWS and not ADVERTISEMENTS? Is that what you are saying? And that's OK? To get paid to advertise a product during the news and treat it like news?
Why are you so terrified of the flu? Why do you think the only way you won't die is if you have a shot?
It is not an advertisement. Have you worked in advertising? I have, and I am comfortable that the media reporting on news that is deemed in the public interest is not advertising. Don't want any advertising? Use public media. But you'll still hear reports of this flu outbreak. And the next one. But I digress. Do you really want a lesson in how advertising works on network television? Because I can. I'm guessing you already know or something like that.
You know what wouldn't be news? Not having to worry about the flu every year. But people die. It matters.
It is not a conflict of interest. I can explain why not, but you don't really care. There is plenty of garbage on the news, and you know what? I don't care.
And why am I terrified of the flu? Because I've been hospitalized because of it. It almost killed me. And I was actually wishing I could die at one point because I felt that bad. I have never missed a shot since then. I won't ever miss one again. And you can be damned sure the people I love are as protected as I can make them.
No, not really and it isn't that difficult to understand why the numbers are controversial if one is honest.
Body of science makes it sound like there have been a lot of studies on this of autoimmune disease and vaccines. There are very few studies on this. There are a lot of unknowns.
I can't find anything about this other then some editorials written by bloggers. Opinion based articles with no evidence proving he is biased. I also can't find anything showing that he testified against Tamiflu. Please share the info.
__________________ ____________________________________________
My posts as a Mod will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS
And check this out: FAQ
Moderator: Relationships Forum / Hawaii Forum / Dogs / Pets / Current Events
There is plenty of research proving it is safer to cross at a crosswalk.
Having worked at several local health departments, I can tell you, they have virtually no advertising budget. Anything that gets into the media is a public service announcement. I have never seen a commercial for the CDC, either. Presumably the CDC does send out press releases. How do you think the media gets any of its news? Does your local media not have newstips lines that you can call to report something?
This has been a worse than usual flu year.
"The overall hospitalization rate is higher than the overall hospitalization rate reported during the same week of the 2014-2015 season; the most severe season in recent years. . . For the week ending January 27, the proportion of people seeing their health care provider for influenza-like illness (ILI) was 7.1%, which is above the national baseline of 2.2% and is the highest ILI percentage recorded since the 2009 pandemic. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/summary.htm
New stats will be out Friday.
On that note: My wife had an operation on January 13th. She was admitted to the hospital on the 12th. But she had to wait half a day for a bed to open up; the hospital was full mostly, we were told, because of the flu.
When a school/university closes it's doors because the flu is rampant and they do not want to infect others; that is news. If you need surgery and you cannot get a bed in a major hospital; that should also be news. People do not like to be surprised; we do like to hear if there are problems and that is one service that news stations render!
No, not really and it isn't that difficult to understand why the numbers are controversial if one is honest.
Body of science makes it sound like there have been a lot of studies on this of autoimmune disease and vaccines. There are very few studies on this. There are a lot of unknowns.
I can't find anything about this other then some editorials written by bloggers. Opinion based articles with no evidence proving he is biased. I also can't find anything showing that he testified against Tamiflu. Please share the info.
No, it is difficult to understand because the statistics are complex.
The bloggers who criticize Jefferson are infectious disease specialists. They are physicians who take care of sick patients with flu. Jefferson is not a physician.
The studies that have been done have not shown a link between autoimmune disease and vaccines. The Lancet link you yourself provided gives the information.
"In 2014 he was retained as a scientific adviser to a legal team acting on oseltamivir. TJ (Thomas Jefferson) has a potential financial conflict of interest in the drug oseltamivir."
Good job on the google search. Did you bother to read the studies you found? Far less then half of them are actually studies related to autoimmune disease and vaccines in terms of vaccines exacerbating existing autoimmune disease or being a trigger. Some of them are not even studies. So while it may look like there are a ton of such studies, when you read what's available, you quickly realize that there's not a whole lot.
One of the studies (I found three to be fair after looking through a few pages) was from 2000 and said the following:
Quote:
So far only one controlled study of an experimental animal model has been published, in which the possible causal relation between vaccines and autoimmune findings has been examined: in healthy puppies immunized with a variety of commonly given vaccines, a variety of autoantibodies have been documented but no frank autoimmune illness was recorded.
So as of 2000 we had one controlled study on animals on this topic.
One of the other studies on this topic out of the three I was able to find in the search results was the Lancet article previously shared where all of the authors had strong connections to various pharmaceutical companies.
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