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My Federal income tax will be either 24% or 22%
Michigan State income tax is 4.25%
Food is zero
Sales tax is 6%
gas is around $2.30 here
We pay roughly $8k a year for BC/BS for our healthcare with an $8k deductible
Norway yearly co pay is closer $600
Gas is $7 a gallon, 80% goes to taxes
Food is taxed at 14%
Sales tax is 14%
Income tax is 28-32%
Sorry, I'll take my country over the utopia of Norway. Do the math. For those that smoke, how does $15 a pack sound to you ? I don't know ,but I'm sure the cost of cigars and bourbon is huge compared to here. What would the cost of hobby type things be ? I read it's illegal to snowmobile there, not sure about dirt bikes or ATV's. WTF ?! Really ? What do people do ? No guns, either...
Do people just hang out and rink (if they can afford it) listening to A-HA all day
This website says the cost of living is 59% higher than the US. Think about that. Nothing is free.
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
Norwegian here..
So your are paying 23% + 4% = 27% and then pay $8k a year for health insurance? How much is $8k of your income? Then the copays, are just an effective tax on top, if you ever need it. So in a year you are sick, you pay $8k in insurance and $8k in deductible.
I am making $50k a year.. I pay 32%.. and yes VAT on goods.
But I dont have to EVER worry about my health.
Just to correct a few things.
Copays in Norway are $260 max pr year. Roughly $20 pr visit.
Sales tax is 25%
- Tobacco and Alchol and Sugar is taxed at a higher rate, to compensate for their usage.
So smokers will have paid more into the system, since they are more likely to become sick at one point.. etc
- Snow mobiles and dirt bikes are not illegal. Just regulated to when.. and where. Not to disturb or destroy scenery etc.
- Lots of guns here. 10% of the population is registered as hunters.
150.000 active shooters in our national shooting sports.
We call our system "Free".. we paid for it with our taxes. We don`t fool ourselves calling it free, we know exactly where the money for our "free" healthcare comes from.
I assume you live in a rural area: It is not illegal to use snowmobiles, dirt bikes or ATVs, but it is restricted. The same goes for guns. Target shooting and hunting are very popular in Norway. I guess Americans prefer human targets instead.
Come on, this has been a good thread and you have to make an insulting comment on your post. It just shows how completely ignorant you are. That comment was completely unwarranted and uncalled for...SMH
So your are paying 23% + 4% = 27% and then pay $8k a year for health insurance? How much is $8k of your income? Then the copays, are just an effective tax on top, if you ever need it. So in a year you are sick, you pay $8k in insurance and $8k in deductible.
I am making $50k a year.. I pay 32%.. and yes VAT on goods.
But I dont have to EVER worry about my health.
Just to correct a few things.
Copays in Norway are $260 max pr year. Roughly $20 pr visit.
Sales tax is 25%
- Tobacco and Alchol and Sugar is taxed at a higher rate, to compensate for their usage.
So smokers will have paid more into the system, since they are more likely to become sick at one point.. etc
- Snow mobiles and dirt bikes are not illegal. Just regulated to when.. and where. Not to disturb or destroy scenery etc.
- Lots of guns here. 10% of the population is registered as hunters.
150.000 active shooters in our national shooting sports.
We call our system "Free".. we paid for it with our taxes. We don`t fool ourselves calling it free, we know exactly where the money for our "free" healthcare comes from.
The deductible is only paid if we need surgery and or hospital stays. If none of that happens we only pay the $8k which is about 5% of our income.
As far as the snowmobiling thing, i was on a snowmobile website and some people from Norway were complaining that they had to cross the border to ride legally and one of them imported a sled (i'm assuming illegally) and got hit with a $10k (usd) fine.
I just took it at face value, didn't think they had a reason to lie.
Those things are regulated here as well.
So back to healthcare. Even at the worst case, it would cost us 10% of our income. So changing to a format like yours would cost us, i know everyone has different situations but those are my reasons for not completely buying into it.
It's a fantasy in your head because it's a stupid idea that no one with common sense will agree to.
My employer provides me with fantastic insurance and I don't have to pay for it.
Why would I want ****ty insurance that I have to pay for and the waiting lists that come with a single-payer system?
Why are leftists so hell-bent on forcing the working poor to cover the expense of heath insurance for fat cat employers?
Do you honestly believe you don't pay for your health insurance? Employer based health insurance is part of a compensation package, it's not free, every employee is paying for their plan in reduced cash wages. I used to work in HR and it was my job to shop for insurance plans, this was long before the ACA and every year the rates just kept rising and rising. A huge percentage of payroll dollars goes towards health insurance costs.
High health insurance cost is a big part of the reason why wages are flat for most. Most people have no idea how much their employer is paying for their plan, a good plan can be unbelievably expensive, that's where a lot money that could be used for raises goes. The costs were insane 20 years ago. I can't even imagine how much employer's are paying for high coverage plans today.
Removing insurance from employment would be a huge benefit to most. Employers could afford to pay much higher salaries. People could chose their own level of health insurance. As a healthy person I would much rather have a higher salary in cash and then purchase a cheaper catastophic plan. I would put some of my extra cash aside to cover my deductable if I were to have a health issue. Someone with a sick child could chose to spend more on a full coverage plan.
Everyone would be free to leave jobs and start their own businesses. Many small business can't compete with large corporations for the best employees due to high health insurance costs. Removing the high cost of insurance benefits would help even the playing field. Removing insurance costs from employers would also make hiring Americans more profitable. Universal care does not have to be single payer. It could be achieved with a carefully regulated insurance industry.
The deductible is only paid if we need surgery and or hospital stays. If none of that happens we only pay the $8k which is about 5% of our income.
As far as the snowmobiling thing, i was on a snowmobile website and some people from Norway were complaining that they had to cross the border to ride legally and one of them imported a sled (i'm assuming illegally) and got hit with a $10k (usd) fine.
I just took it at face value, didn't think they had a reason to lie.
Those things are regulated here as well.
So back to healthcare. Even at the worst case, it would cost us 10% of our income. So changing to a format like yours would cost us, i know everyone has different situations but those are my reasons for not completely buying into it.
So, your are taxed at 27% + 5% = 32%.. Same as me
By going to a single payer, the US would save $2-3 Trillion each year.
The US is spending 17% of GDP on Healthcare.
OECD average is 10% of GDP
The deductible is only paid if we need surgery and or hospital stays. If none of that happens we only pay the $8k which is about 5% of our income.
As far as the snowmobiling thing, i was on a snowmobile website and some people from Norway were complaining that they had to cross the border to ride legally and one of them imported a sled (i'm assuming illegally) and got hit with a $10k (usd) fine.
I just took it at face value, didn't think they had a reason to lie.
Those things are regulated here as well.
So back to healthcare. Even at the worst case, it would cost us 10% of our income. So changing to a format like yours would cost us, i know everyone has different situations but those are my reasons for not completely buying into it.
Worse case would be one of you get diagnosed with say MS. Then 16k would not be worse case or even close.
Do you honestly believe you don't pay for your health insurance? Employer based health insurance is part of a compensation package, it's not free, every employee is paying for their plan in reduced cash wages. I used to work in HR and it was my job to shop for insurance plans, this was long before the ACA and every year the rates just kept rising and rising. A huge percentage of payroll dollars goes towards health insurance costs.
High health insurance cost is a big part of the reason why wages are flat for most. Most people have no idea how much their employer is paying for their plan, a good plan can be unbelievably expensive, that's where a lot money that could be used for raises goes. The costs were insane 20 years ago. I can't even imagine how much employer's are paying for high coverage plans today.
Removing insurance from employment would be a huge benefit to most. Employers could afford to pay much higher salaries. People could chose their own level of health insurance. As a healthy person I would much rather have a higher salary in cash and then purchase a cheaper catastophic plan. I would put some of my extra cash aside to cover my deductable if I were to have a health issue. Someone with a sick child could chose to spend more on a full coverage plan.
Everyone would be free to leave jobs and start their own businesses. Many small business can't compete with large corporations for the best employees due to high health insurance costs. Removing the high cost of insurance benefits would help even the playing field. Removing insurance costs from employers would also make hiring Americans more profitable. Universal care does not have to be single payer. It could be achieved with a carefully regulated insurance industry.
Should be the standard answer to everybody who disagrees with SinglePayer / Universal healthcare.
Employe based healthcare is bad for the economy, the worker, the company, entrepreneurship, salary.. etc etc.
I worked for the most profitable company in Norway, by a huge margin.
Left that job and cut my salary in half... but nothing happened to my healthcare.
Still covered for any eventuality!
If Universal healthcare, in all OECD countries costs around 9-11% of GDP.. and the US spends 17%.. how much would a completely privatized individual insurance cost? Less then 10%?
By going to a single payer, the US would save $2-3 Trillion each year.
The US is spending 17% of GDP on Healthcare.
OECD average is 10% of GDP
And OECD countries have better outcomes.
And i stated, if it was one thing like that higher tax rate you mentioned i would be fine. You seemed to have forgotten about close to 3x higher gas prices, 14% food tax, 25% sales tax...all that added together is a lot of increased cost.
Do you agree with the article that i posted , that your cost of living is 59% higher than ours ? I'm assuming the article took averages since it varies across the country.
Last edited by scarabchuck; 02-05-2018 at 05:19 PM..
If Universal healthcare, in all OECD countries costs around 9-11% of GDP.. and the US spends 17%.. how much would a completely privatized individual insurance cost? Less then 10%?
You're confusing costs with spending. What healthcare actually costs and what governments actually spend are not the same thing.
How many OECD countries have a population of 320 Million, with a significant number of Hispanics, Native Americans and Black Americans?
If we had Medicare-for-All, costs would actually increase:
In total, federal spending would increase by about $2.5 trillion (257.6 percent) in 2017. Federal expenditures would increase by about $32.0 trillion (232.7 percent) between 2017 and 2026.
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