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Obviously those are exactly the same if they both happened, but the first one didn't, and the maybe the second one didn't, either (since it seems more likely that Steele and/or others simply made the "dossier" up). However, what I'm talking about is the disparate response from the FBI (and the silly commentary from whoever put together the timeline posted on page 1 of this thread).
I read that timeline , and what the FBI heard from Pappadopoulos (2nd hand), according to that timeline was that Russia had dirt on Clinton that it (Russia) was planning to use to get Trump elected.
This was a "jaw-dropping" statement, somehow, even though what the FBI knew about Clinton and "the Russians" went way beyond that. Whereas the Pappadopoulus timeline item said that the Russians (not the Trump team) had dirt on Hillary that the Russians (not the Trump team) were going to use, the FBI knew that Cinton's team actually already had and was using dirt on Trump that was supposed to be from the Kremlin.
The FBI helped the Clinton team use their supposed dirt from the Russians and turned around and started some kind of criminal investigation to stop Russian dirt from being used against Hillary. It doesn't get more blatantly political than that.
With what "Russians" did Clinton "go way beyond"? Are you talking about the DNC (not Clinton) hiring a law firm, which in turn hired Fusion GPS to perform opposition research because some of the research ultimately led to information provided by people who were Russian? That is hardly the equivalent of what Papadopolous claimed was going on with the Trump team.
With what "Russians" did Clinton "go way beyond"? Are you talking about the DNC (not Clinton) hiring a law firm, which in turn hired Fusion GPS to perform opposition research because some of the research ultimately led to information provided by people who were Russian? That is hardly the equivalent of what Papadopolous claimed was going on with the Trump team.
Right, it's not the equivalent -- it's far more than what Papadopoulos claimed. The Clinton team had already obtained and started to use material from the Kremlin.
Papadopoulos only said the Kremlin had some dirt on Clinton. He didn't say anything about the Trump campaign obtaining or using it.
The FBI knew for a fact that the Clinton either had dirt, or pretended to have dirt on Trump, from the Russians, and the FBI did the exact opposite of investigating. It HELPED the Clinton campaign.
What you typed is a clear statement that the investigation is 100% crooked and political.
Did you read what I wrote? Did you understand it?
Did you realize that "jaw-dropping" was part of a quote that someone else wrote?
Did you notice that I didn't mention the dossier?
You either didn't comprehend what I wrote or you were mistakenly replying to some other made post.
Since this investigation into the Russian government's attempt to influence our election was never public prior to the actual election, I am at loss at how it HELPED the Clinton campaign.
You keep insisting the investigation is crooked and helped Clinton but never come up with anything besides these strange posts.
Right, it's not the equivalent -- it's far more than what Papadopoulos claimed. The Clinton team had already obtained and started to use material from the Kremlin.
Papadopoulos only said the Kremlin had some dirt on Clinton. He didn't say anything about the Trump campaign obtaining or using it.
Where in the world did THAT come from. There's a major disconnect between what you write and my understanding.
I use the term "Kremlin" as an entity connected to "Putin" who, in turn, is associated with the "Russian Government," all of which do not have American interests primary. Russia 101.
It appears clear that the Russian Government interfered in the US election, whether or not to sow discord or in the long shot that a candidate whose stated positions (Trump) were more in line with their interests than those of his opponent (Clinton) was elected.
For whatever reasons, one candidate (Trump) ALSO appeared to have questionable contacts with the Russian GOVERNMENT and/or promoted the election interference that led first to an FBI investigation then (after Trump fired Comey) to the Mueller investigations. Maybe this happened, maybe not. The investigations are not completed with no firm results or conclusions.
The other candidate (Clinton) was conducting opposition research on Trump. It was TRUMP who placed himself (and the possible wrongdoings) into a Russian setting and so, therefore, some of the informants appear to be Russian citizens who (per Congressional testimony from Fusion GPS) provided information at great risk to themselves from the Kremlin / Putin / Russian Government.
Now how does this possibly put CLINTON in bed with the Kremlin? Plus, no one alleges (to my knowledge) that the DNS should not have contracted with Fusion GPS. OTOH, we can all agree that a US Presidential candidate should not KNOWINGLY accept assistance from or in any way coordinate with a foreign government for dirty tricks (distributing the Podesta e-mails thru Wikileaks).
One matter is what a Presidential candidate DID (the Trump investigation) the other is what information a Presidential candidate GATHERED on, again, what the opposing Presidential candidate DID.
Where in the world did THAT come from. There's a major disconnect between what you write and my understanding.
I use the term "Kremlin" as an entity connected to "Putin" who, in turn, is associated with the "Russian Government," all of which do not have American interests primary. Russia 101.
It appears clear that the Russian Government interfered in the US election, whether or not to sow discord or in the long shot that a candidate whose stated positions (Trump) were more in line with their interests than those of his opponent (Clinton) was elected.
For whatever reasons, one candidate (Trump) ALSO appeared to have questionable contacts with the Russian GOVERNMENT and/or promoted the election interference that led first to an FBI investigation then (after Trump fired Comey) to the Mueller investigations. Maybe this happened, maybe not. The investigations are not completed with no firm results or conclusions.
The other candidate (Clinton) was conducting opposition research on Trump. It was TRUMP who placed himself (and the possible wrongdoings) into a Russian setting and so, therefore, some of the informants appear to be Russian citizens who (per Congressional testimony from Fusion GPS) provided information at great risk to themselves from the Kremlin / Putin / Russian Government.
Now how does this possibly put CLINTON in bed with the Kremlin? Plus, no one alleges (to my knowledge) that the DNS should not have contracted with Fusion GPS. OTOH, we can all agree that a US Presidential candidate should not KNOWINGLY accept assistance from or in any way coordinate with a foreign government for dirty tricks (distributing the Podesta e-mails thru Wikileaks).
One matter is what a Presidential candidate DID (the Trump investigation) the other is what information a Presidential candidate GATHERED on, again, what the opposing Presidential candidate DID.
Whew.
Sadly, the response will ignore everything you wrote (all of which is both well-reasoned and factually accurate) and will be either be purposefully obtuse or completely conclusory but, in either event, will claim that Hillary was in bed with the Russians and did far worse than Trump. If you are lucky you will avoid a reference to Uranium One.
Sadly, the response will ignore everything you wrote (all of which is both well-reasoned and factually accurate) and will be either be purposefully obtuse or completely conclusory but, in either event, will claim that Hillary was in bed with the Russians and did far worse than Trump. If you are lucky you will avoid a reference to Uranium One.
Oh please, don't bring that tired old conspiracy tale up again.
Can we stick with just the current conspiracies?
My favorite is the one about the "deep state" which if it actually existed, Trump would be freaking stupid to pick a fight with.
But now that I think about it, Trump has picked fights with the FBI, DOJ, and Massad.
Agreed. He was a nobody, Trump didn't know who he was and never met him. Do I have the talking points right?
That may be true, but that doesn't mean that Page wasn't making promises to Russian officials. And, I'm not limiting this to the Trump campaign; there could have been people in ANY of the campaigns involved.
See that's the thing, I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that this whole thing did not start out as just an investigation of the Trump campaign.
It started out as an investigation into whether EITHER of the campaigns were accepting dirt and help from foreign governments in exchange for future "favors."
Remember too: the Clinton campaign was investigated by the FBI based on emails that were released by wikileaks. Surely, wikileaks is not an "unbiased" source of information either, yet I didn't hear a lot of the people who are now complaining about the "dossier" object about the FBI's investigation based partially on wikileaks.
If you see this as just a partisan investigation, aimed at only one side, you are not seeing the whole picture.
This is about whether a foreign government aided and abetted anyone on either campaign in getting an advantage in the election in exchange for future favors.
Republican, Democrat, right, left, conservative, liberal. It makes no difference. I have zero problem with the DOJ and the FBI investigating both Trump and Clinton, and everyone on their teams. If there is some evidence that comes from "biased" sources that doesn't mean that it is wrong. If and when any further indictments come down the pike, it's up to the courts to determine what evidence is admissible at that time.
What I do care about is that Americans need to know if anyone cut deals with a foreign government to improve their chances of winning the election (or for other purposes, such as personal financial incentives).
If the answer is no - great. Then we can go to the polls this November knowing that our votes will be cast for American interests, not a foreign government's interests.
If the answer is yes - then we can fix the system to make sure that it doesn't happen again and to protect America.
Anyone who truly wants to keep America great should have no problem with that.
That's why Trump hasn't said anything bad about them.
Trump is under the deep state's control.
OMG, I never thought of that
I wonder if they are slipping hallucinogens into his Big Macs.
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