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You (yes you commenting on here in defense of Cheeto Jesus might be a cyborg, a bot, or working with a Russian bot). And the rest of us are wasting our breath debating one.
Here's your movie:
Negatory ghost rider.
LOL release the memo is the work of Russian bots...
Trump is a result of Russian election interference.
Trump colluded with Russians.
Russians influenced the election.
These Russians are damn effective! I don't know if it's still denial... or failure to comprehend... or you really bought the farm on this Russian conspiracy...
I know they're good for 3 things...
Tracking moose and squirrel.
Vodka.
Communism.
But if they're as effective as you claim them to be... and accuse me of working with them/for them, you have any proof of this?
LOL release the memo is the work of Russian bots...
Trump is a result of Russian election interference.
Trump colluded with Russians.
Russians influenced the election.
These Russians are damn effective! I don't know if it's still denial... or failure to comprehend... or you really bought the farm on this Russian conspiracy...
I know they're good for 3 things...
Tracking moose and squirrel.
Vodka.
Communism.
But if they're as effective as you claim them to be... and accuse me of working with them/for them, you have any proof of this?
You (yes you commenting on here in defense of Cheeto Jesus might be a cyborg, a bot, or working with a Russian bot). And the rest of us are wasting our breath debating one.
Here's your movie:
Lord ... the implications of those article assertions does make the rest of the discussion seem like blowing in the wind. I only skimmed ... but did notice Sara Carter's name in one of the tweet chains. She is, of course, the go-to person for Sean Hannity on all things Russia.
For there has to be a crossover to those of us who aren't even on twitter and barely grasp the bot-thing.
Here's where that article goes to crap and quick... are you ready...
Quote:
But this back and forth masks the real point. Whether it is Republican or Russian or “Macedonian teenagers”—it doesn't really matter.
It does matter... you're equating Americans to foreign nationals to discredit them...
Quote:
It is computational propaganda—meaning artificially amplified and targeted for a specific purpose—and it dominated political discussions in the United States for days.
Why is it deemed as computational propaganda? Is it because it wasn't pushed by the mainstream media?
You old foagies need to get up to speed with today's digital information... and join some political groups online/social media...
Quote:
The #releasethememo campaign came out of nowhere. Its movement from social media to fringe/far-right media to mainstream media so swift that both the speed and the story itself became impossible to ignore.
Uhh... no... it was reported Nunes had a memo pertaining to the FISA warrant...
Quote:
The frenzy of activity spurred lawmakers and the White House to release the Nunes memo, which critics say is a purposeful misrepresentation of classified intelligence meant to discredit the Russia probe and protect the president.
Uhh... you do know that public opinion does not sway an ongoing investigation... right? It can be discredited to the moon and back! Doesn't mean Mueller is going to halt investigating and stand down or prop Trump up as innocent...
See in this country... we are innocent until proven guilty, to hell with what you feel...
Unfortunately for you and whoever wrote this article. There is no court of public opinion or penal code based on public opinion. Maybe in Russia... not here...
Who wrote this? A 50 year old liberal hack that has no clue how government, technology, or the FBI works?
Trump is only the symptom, not the disease. He is a nearly useless buffoon and disgrace to the nation an humanity, but I also doubt he has interest in really being a dictator. Never challenged or forced to confront facts or be held accountable? Of course! But actually WORK at destroying the nation over many years? Nah... that requires competence and planning, things he lacks.
His followers, however, are another story. They would be fine with a dictatorship if it prevented dissent (from only the left, of course), crushed minorities and the poor, forced theocracy down our throats, and so on. What they see in Trump and what they want for the nation is the real problem, more so than Trump's staggering inability to deliver on their sick vision.
And these traits of Trump's leave him perfectly positioned to become a puppet of those who ARE invested in the destruction of America's democratic republic. Those who have no problem with work and planning, and who like some of his deluded followers, have no problem with preventing dissent, crushing the poor and minorities, and so on in order to achieve their goal of a weakened United States led by a puppet. Who are these hidden enemies, you ask?
They are Vladimir Putin and his vast army of trolls, bots, and slaveys eager (and often, paid) to do his will.
Weakening our system of government and our power in the world in order for Putin's sovietized Russia to prevail is the real goal, to be achieved by whatever means seem effective. It has nothing to do with Russia supporting Hillary Clinton and the Democrats or supporting Donald Trump and the Republicans.
Those who want to destroy American as we know it are non-partisan, and will use whatever means seem most expedient. Trump was and continues to be viewed as weaker, more flawed and more easily steered and manipulated than Clinton, the stronger candidate and stronger individual, would have been, so support was thrown to him. As it's highly likely that Putin holds compromat over Trump, this was a tool which strengthened his hold - and his influence and power.
This has been stated in one form or another all over this and other forums and commentaries about current affairs. Evidently there are none so blind as those who refuse to see - blinded by their mindless devotion to Trump and fear of what they perceive as evil goals - ascribed to the Democrats.
I fear for my country, but am optimistic about its long-term future. But it's going to be necessary for those who understand what complexities are behind the headlines to speak out and to act to ensure the survival of our democratic system of representative government.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 02-11-2018 at 03:27 PM..
Yes and no. While left-wing loonies exist, it is safe to say, based on the facts, that they are far, FAR less numerous than the far-right extremists in this nation at this time. Hillary's defeat is an example of that - factor out all the people who voted "for" her to vote against Trump, and her numbers are horrible. Same with the fact that right-wing extremists control all branches of the government. Finally, as personal experience, in my entire life, I've lived only in rather blue states - and even in such places, right-wing extremists are far more common, dangerous, and extreme than left-wing equivalents. Now, imagine how bad things are in blood-red states.
I'm not saying left-wing extremists don't exist, but they clearly have no national level power or things would look very different, nor are they common even in blue states. I've run into TWO so far in 20 years (college and beyond), while meeting at least two dozen right-wing extremists. And, again, imagine how bad it would be in red states.
Sorry, but this just sounds like you are trying to dress up your opinions as facts. I'm pretty sure there are no actual polls or surveys to back this up. Its anecdotal at best.
...Trump was and continues to be viewed as weaker, more flawed and more easily steered and manipulated than Clinton, the stronger candidate and stronger individual, would have been, so support was thrown to him. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
Agreed. Trump is a really crappy liar and he does so a lot. This definitely makes them less presidential. Because our past presidents were MUCH better liars or could at least word things so as not to be blatant lies.....
It does rather seem like we should have multiple words in English for the word LIE, at least as used by politicians. Rather like the Eskimos do for snow. We have "little-white-lie" and that's about it. Maybe "prevaricate."
I prefer my Presidents to be good (if, hopefully, selective) liars, if only because that skill-set is likely to carry over into other arenas. Americans do not seem to have an innate ability to accept complexity, and all too often resort to absolutes. That you see on this forum all day long.
That Clinton kept herself out of jail I attribute more to her ability to parse sentences and deflect than to innate FBI corruption or the like. Why? Because I listened to her avoid perjury in the Gowdy hearings checking back to original sources on occasion. She's good. And of the two, got my vote.
One of the things I find most disturbing about Trump's lying is how non-functional it is even though it may at times rally the Base. This suggests that it is more emotion-driven than tactical.
Edited to add - We shouldn't confuse this issue with "decency." Jerry Ford was one of our most decent presidents - and, himself, was accused of lying when he denied promising Nixon a pardon if he stepped down. Here, he ... prevaricated ... all in the name of ending the so-called national nightmare.
Reagan. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Signs FOPA into law without telling Hughes to F off and getting that amendment removed...
There was a good one by Bush other than WMDs and that was with the Patriot act and the TSA...
True. I could go back 200 years, but would have hit the character limit.
Politicians lie. Period. Some are better at it, aka "teflon Clinton" or "teflon Reagan". Two most famous examples.
Here's where that article goes to crap and quick... are you ready...
It does matter... you're equating Americans to foreign nationals to discredit them...
Why is it deemed as computational propaganda? Is it because it wasn't pushed by the mainstream media?
You old foagies need to get up to speed with today's digital information... and join some political groups online/social media...
Uhh... no... it was reported Nunes had a memo pertaining to the FISA warrant...
Uhh... you do know that public opinion does not sway an ongoing investigation... right? It can be discredited to the moon and back! Doesn't mean Mueller is going to halt investigating and stand down or prop Trump up as innocent...
See in this country... we are innocent until proven guilty, to hell with what you feel...
Unfortunately for you and whoever wrote this article. There is no court of public opinion or penal code based on public opinion. Maybe in Russia... not here...
Who wrote this? A 50 year old liberal hack that has no clue how government, technology, or the FBI works?
The point, you're missing it. On purpose because you're in the bag for Trump and the chaos he brings, so I'll make it short and direct.
It is computational propaganda because it's using computer technology to falsify citizens' participation and thoughts on issues of the day. Rather than "get up to speed" with this insidious form of technological antidemocratic chaos; old and young "foagies" who care about this country's democratic form of governance will do all they can to shine a light on this computational propaganda and to keep it out of our political discourse. Maybe some of you who aren't totally carrying your own pod should spend a little more time out in the fresh air.
The whole point of that article was that the demand to release the Nunes memo was astroturfed with the aid of computational propaganda. Enough artificially drummed up noise on the part of Russian AND US right wing bad actors can discredit an investigation before it's even reached it's findings, and, qui bono? That's right; the Fat Man and his handlers. He's not in this alone.
"See, in THIS country..." (yeah, saw that movie too) long before a court trial can be concluded, public opinion no matter how poorly formed can sway the powers of good or the powers of evil. Which side are you on?
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