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View Poll Results: Other than the shooter, who do you think is most responsible for the tragedy
Youtube, for deleting the warning comments of someone on the video 1 0.71%
The FBI 19 13.57%
The sheriff and his deputies 19 13.57%
The NRA 21 15.00%
Donald Trump 1 0.71%
The Second Amendment 6 4.29%
The FBI AND the sheriff and deputies and maybe Youtube too 51 36.43%
Other 22 15.71%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-16-2018, 04:32 AM
 
1,704 posts, read 749,091 times
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So I guess we'll just keep on debating right up until the next mass-shooting.....and the next... and the next... and the next.... and the next....and the next.

No people. Talk and prayer is insufficient.

It's time for action!
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:33 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,302,323 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
Is ADD really a mental illness?

I have no doubt these meds do help people, so I hope you don't misunderstand. They are lifesavers for many.
But an adult brain is different from a teenagers or a child's brain.

Some boys go on these medications as young as 6. And then they are on them for 10 or 15 years or more. And no studies have been done to show the long term effects on these developing children.

I wish you the best with your mental health journey. I have OCD and anxiety as do my mother and my son and I know it isn't easy.

P.S. While you are researching, may I suggest you research the benefits of a gluten free diet, if you haven't already?
My son has ADHD and he's on Concerta.

Yes, it absolutely is a brain disorder. And the Concerta has worked wonders for him.

He has been on it for 2 years, started on it when he was well past 6 years old. We tried everything else before putting him on medicine. It was a VERY difficult decision.
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:38 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,302,323 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
yes..do something about mental illness in the USA
You mean like, gee, I don't know...having quality, affordable, accessible healthcare for all? Now, I wonder who wanted to do that? Right on the tip of my tongue...
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:39 AM
 
7,588 posts, read 4,159,881 times
Reputation: 6946
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeliner View Post
So I guess we'll just keep on debating right up until the next mass-shooting, ...and the next... and the next, and the next.... and the next....and the next. No people! Talk is cheap!

It's time for action!
Yes. The first thing I want to know is if procedure was followed the minute they knew of an unauthorized person on campus or if they only realized after he was shooting.

This is important because it will show where the weak points are in this situation. This biggest weak point, being in denial.
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:40 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,302,323 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
yep, there was an armed guard but in a school with 3,000 kids it would probably take 20 armed guards to cover the area well enough to ensure that a single guard would even encounter the shooter. It's a preposterous solution to a problem that could be largely mitigated by making the possession of semi-autos more restrictive than for other guns and banning those without fixed magazines w/ 10 round or less. The solutions aren't hard it just takes enough people wondering if there kids will die at school to get mad enough to vote for politicians who aren't bought and paid for by the NRA

Florida school shooting: How was killer able to get around school security? - Sun Sentinel
I remember a few years ago when the right said we should have AN (one) armed guard at schools. Many do now. Now that's not good enough. Now we need MORE armed guards.

We don't need a better healthcare system or to ban people with proven mental health issues from owning guns, but damn it we need more armed guards.
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:42 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,302,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
Are the following incidents factual, or "bull crap"? :

• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

• Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

• Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?

• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado?

• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?

• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?

(Adam Lanza had been prescribed several psychiatric meds).

This was compiled prior to the Charleston church shooter, Dylan Roof. He was found in possession of Suboxone..."Suboxone is the brand name of a narcotic that's considered milder than others drugs in its class, such as oxycontin, heroin and vicodin. It is prescribed as a step-down drug for the treatment of opiate and painkiller addictions. It comes in both pill form and thin film strips that dissolve on the tongue, the type Roof had, according to police.

Doctors and researchers in the field of addiction say that Suboxone been a helpful tool in fighting opiate addictions without the need to send patients to methadone clinics. It is sometimes called the "middle class methadone."

"While its safer than heroin or methadone if you take it as directed, if you don't it's as dangerous as any of these other drugs," Dr. Eric Wish, the Director of the Center for Substance Abuse Research at the University of Maryland, told CBS News."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/charles...drug-suboxone/


Also, I have no interest in or connection to Scientology. If any links had anything to do with Scientology I wouldn't have known.
And how many more people are helped by those medicines?

Also, not for nothing, but I am pretty sure every person on your list is a young, white male. Maybe we should do something about them?
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:45 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,302,323 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
The only people that can ever stop these senseless acts of violence are the victims. They are the ones in the right place at the right time to stop the slaughter. If we trained our kids to respond when threatened maybe there would not be 17 dead; maybe only two dead? Maybe and attacker like this monster would think twice before attempting to attack capable teenagers.

If any shooter has thirty books or shoes being thrown at him; he does not have a chance to respond. If the whole class charges; the shooter cannot kill all. The idea is to make the 'victims' into a fighting machine that can repulse any of these single shooters. Flying objects do not let a shooter aim or even hold the gun. If a class of 30 teenagers would all tackle the shooter; that would be hitting him with the force of two tons.

We could take classes out to our school yards and practice throwing books, shoes, chairs - let our kids know they do not have to act like victims. Bring in experts to work with them. Empower them so they can not only save their own lives; but also the lives of their classmates. Make the monsters think twice before they would attack an empowered school!
I know you mean well.

BUt I can't wrap my mind around the growing cries for more responsibility on the part of the children in these incidents. There's a video going around on FB of some manly man screaming into the camera about how kids need to be more responsible by reporting "weird" people. Nevermind the fact that this kid was already on the school's radar AND was reported to the FBI.

Its the victims' faults.
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:46 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,621,806 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
yes..do something about mental illness in the USA
Like cutting coverage. No worries, Trump is on it
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,621,806 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
We could take classes out to our school yards and practice throwing books, shoes, chairs - let our kids know they do not have to act like victims. Bring in experts to work with them. Empower them so they can not only save their own lives; but also the lives of their classmates. Make the monsters think twice before they would attack an empowered school!
Yea, grab your math book and fight a guy with a rifle & 30 rounds in the magazine. Great idea
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:50 AM
 
4,798 posts, read 3,508,401 times
Reputation: 2301
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Include lobbyists, legislators, & NRA lapdogs:



https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/bi...id=hjres40-115

H.J.Res.40 supporters disapproved adding those with mental illnesses to the national background check database.

Bill sponsor(s): 1
Sam Johnson (R-TX)

Bill co-sponsor(s): 120
Ralph Abraham (R-LA)
Robert B Aderholt (R-AL)
Richard W Allen (R-GA)
Mark Amodei (R-NV)
Jodey Arrington (R-TX)
Brian Babin (R-TX)
Jim Banks (R-IN)
Lou Barletta (R-PA)
Andy Barr (R-KY)
Joe Barton (R-TX)
Rob Bishop (R-UT)
Diane Black (R-TN)
Marsha Blackburn (R-TN)
Mike Bost (R-IL)
Dave Brat (R-VA)
Mo Brooks (R-AL)
Michael Burgess (R-TX)
Bradley Byrne (R-AL)
John Carter (R-TX)
Liz Cheney (R-WY)
Tom Cole (R-OK)
Chris Collins (R-NY)
Doug Collins (R-GA)
Mike Conaway (R-TX)
Paul Cook (R-CA)
Kevin Cramer (R-ND)
Rick Crawford (R-AR)
John Culberson (R-TX)
Scott Desjarlais (R-TN)
Jeff Duncan (R-SC)
Tom Emmer (R-MN)
Blake Farenthold (R-TX)
Chuck Fleischmann (R-TN)
Bill Flores (R-TX)
Virginia Foxx (R-NC)
Trent Franks (R- )
Louis B Gohmert Jr. (R-TX)
Paul Gosar (R-AZ)
Kay Granger (R-TX)
Tom Graves (R-GA)
Morgan Griffith (R-VA)
Brett Guthrie (R-KY)
Gregg Harper (R-MS)
Andy Harris (R-MD)
Vicky Hartzler (R-MO)
Jeb Hensarling (R-TX)
Jody B Hice (R-GA)
Clay Higgins (R-LA)
French Hill (R-AR)
George Holding (R-NC)
Richard Hudson (R-NC)
Randy Hultgren (R-IL)
Duncan D Hunter (R-CA)
Will Hurd (R-TX)
Evan Jenkins (R-WV)
Bill Johnson (R-OH)
Walter B Jones Jr. (R-NC)
Mike Kelly (R-PA)
Steven A King (R-IA)
Raul Labrador (R-ID)
Doug LaMalfa (R-CA)
Douglas L Lamborn (R-CO)
Robert E Latta (R-OH)
Billy Long (R-MO)
Barry Loudermilk (R-GA)
Mia Love (R-UT)
Blaine Luetkemeyer (R-MO)
Kenny Marchant (R-TX)
Tom Marino (R-PA)
Thomas Massie (R-KY)
Michael McCaul (R-TX)
Tom McClintock (R-CA)
David McKinley (R-WV)
Martha McSally (R-AZ)
Mark R Meadows (R-NC)
Luke Messer (R-IN)
Paul Mitchell (R-MI)
John Moolenaar (R-MI)
Markwayne Mullin (R-OK)
Daniel Milton Newhouse (R-WA)
Kristi Noem (R-SD)
Devin Nunes (R-CA)
Pete Olson (R-TX)
Steven Palazzo (R-MS)
Gary Palmer (R-AL)
Collin Peterson (D-MN)
Robert Pittenger (R-NC)
Ted Poe (R-TX)
Bruce Poliquin (R-ME)
Bill Posey (R-FL)
John Lee Ratcliffe (R-TX)
Tom Reed (R-NY)
Jim Renacci (R-OH)
Phil Roe (R-TN)
Mike D Rogers (R-AL)
Tom Rooney (R-FL)
Peter Roskam (R-IL)
Keith J Rothfus (R-PA)
David Rouzer (R-NC)
Steven Russell (R-OK)
Steve Scalise (R-LA)
David Schweikert (R-AZ)
Austin Scott (R-GA)
Pete Sessions (R-TX)
Bill Shuster (R-PA)
Jason Smith (R-MO)
Lamar Smith (R-TX)
Adrian Smith (R-NE)
Glenn Thompson (R-PA)
Mac Thornberry (R-TX)
Pat Tiberi (R- )
Jackie Walorski (R-IN)
Randy Weber (R-TX)
Brad Wenstrup (R-OH)
Bruce Westerman (R-AR)
Roger Williams (R-TX)
Joe Wilson (R-SC)
Rob Wittman (R-VA)
Ted Yoho (R-FL)
Don Young (R-AK)
This was just for people not being able to handle finances.. Whats the problem. Some people have fudicarys and are quite healthy and of sound mind. Some may be on temporary need. Maybe the legislation should have put further guidance as to length of time and reasons to not exercise this on a person incapacitated and unable to do their finances.
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