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Old 02-22-2018, 11:02 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,151 posts, read 15,578,521 times
Reputation: 17139

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka1 View Post
As usual, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I didn't serve in uniformed ranks. I did work for the Army and I have spent time overseas but I didn't carry a weapon. Lot of folks around me did, but neither I or any of the other infrastructure maintenance crews did. In all humility I am more than qualified to though. Firearms proficiency does not require uniformed service to make the cut.


Not necessarily saying Pres Trump is any sort of gunhand, but maybe he is . IDK. I know a great number of excellent shooters who were never in uniformed service. It's not any sort of prerequisite for being proficient with a firearm. I also know quite a few cops who are scary inept with their service weapon.


So, it begs the question...do you know what you're talking about? No disrespect intended. An honest question. What are your firearms qualifications? I believe armed campus staff is a good idea. I would also require such staff log required amount of practice every week. On an action oriented course as well, so proficiency under pressure comes second nature. Which is more than is required of police officers, which I would see changed as well.


At any rate, it's a start. I would call on the NRA to be proactive in this and offer proper, no cost training for such armed staff. They have a LOT of good instructors who are quite capable of properly training school staff. All over the country ready and willing to step up/ I would personally be quite willing to volunteer my time to help train armed school staff and I know a bunch of others willing and able as well. That would be a proactive and proper thing for the NRA and other shooting groups to take on.


Lets put the money where the mouths are and let the rubber hit the road.

 
Old 02-23-2018, 02:00 AM
 
51,619 posts, read 25,691,824 times
Reputation: 37806
There were armed guards around at the massacres at Columbine, the Pulse nightclub, Las Vegas, and Parkland.
 
Old 02-23-2018, 02:47 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,750,280 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka1 View Post
As usual, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
actually he doesnt want to arm all the teachers, just a few. just ones that are willing to go through the necessary training to handle situations like a school shooter. its not like we just give teachers guns and send them on their way.

just remember it usually takes police between eight and ten minutes to respond to an emergency situation, like a school shooting. the problem is that the shooting is over in like three minutes.

as the saying goes, when seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

but we have tried gun free zones for years, and we can see how that has been working out havent we?
 
Old 02-23-2018, 03:37 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,940 posts, read 1,021,366 times
Reputation: 2075
Our teachers are overworked already. They should only have to focus on teaching.

Arming our schools is not solving the problem. There are many failed policies and institutions that are causing gun violence in our country.

If the Administration and NRA says the problem is Mental Illness fix health Care.

If the police and FBI failed to act on the signs that something was wrong, fire Jeff Session and investigate our intelligence agencies.

We have to submit to a background check and random drug test to get a job, there should be one to own a gun.
 
Old 02-23-2018, 03:49 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,625 posts, read 26,311,930 times
Reputation: 12635
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike77 View Post
OK, everybody BACK UP. For those of you who only watch your MSNBC news feed, I actually watched the listening session where this idea was brought up. It was one of many suggestions brought up by the parents and kids from Florida. Trump said that it would only work if the teacher/coach was highly trained and that the gun would be kept in a SAFE. Nobody would know which teacher/coach, if any, had access to the safe. Out of respect for the mourning parents and kids, Trump graciously lent credence to each idea. But, of course, all we read from the MSM is "Trump wants to arm teachers". How disgusting.

A safe is a bad idea.

The school administrator/teacher needs to be able to respond to an active shooter immediately.
 
Old 02-23-2018, 04:02 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,044 posts, read 13,295,225 times
Reputation: 19277
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
There were armed guards around at the massacres at Columbine, the Pulse nightclub, Las Vegas, and Parkland.


Whilst going on about the lack of mental health services, Trump has proposed slashing $5bn from the Department of Education’s budget. Among the programs on the chopping block: those to help pay for counselors in schools and violence prevention programs.

Furthermore the article asks how much would it cost to actually arm 20% of teachers, which equates to supplying guns and training 718,000 teachers, and who is going to pay for all of this when the Education Budget is being squeezed.

A 2013 poll by the US National Education Association found only 22% of teachers said they approved of the idea of arming staff, while 68% of teachers said they were opposed. Whilst 72% of teachers said they would not want to carry a gun even if the law allowed.

An American Columist wrote a good article in The Guardian -

Giving guns to teachers? That's an army we don't need – or want - The Guardian

Trump endorses guns for teachers to stop shootings - BBC News

Wouldn't arming teachers also fundamentally change the student and teacher relationship and dynamic. For instance although I am not American I can recall some teachers I didn't particuarly like and there's always going to be those teachers who are going to enjoy the power trip of having a gun, the type of teacher who would leave his jacket just open enough so you can see his holster and gun, and the type of macho teacher who likes to impress the girls or throw his weight around.

There is also the possibility of more teachers shooting students now that they have access to guns, would a fight between a teacher and student result in deadly force, will there be mistakes made, and of course there is of course the race card, indeed as a result of police shootings more police are now in US schools and the result has seen an increase in the number of black students who end up being funneled in to the Criminal Justice System at an ever earler age.

Whilst the increase in armed security in US Schools has not prevented mass shootings and tragedies, and the same tagedies occur at US Univesities which usually have their own fully armed police forces. It also should be noted that the majority of US mass shootings are not in schools, and they occurr in numerous locations, many of which have armed security guards and police.

More Cops In Schools Means More Black Kids In The Criminal Justice System - Huff Post

As for blaming everything on mental health, don't the mentally ill, the vast majority of whom are not violent in any way have enough stigma to deal with. As a recent article in the Business Insider points out, if a number of major mental illnesses were cured, gun violence would only go down by 4% in the US.

"Researchers say that histories of domestic violence, anger, and disdain for women are often strong predictors of future gun violence. Indeed Nine out of the 10 perpetrators of the most violent shootings in America had histories of abusing women".

So it's not just a mental health issue, although even if it were the US has continually cut state mental health services and beds over many decades, is now cutting counselors in schools and violence prevention programs.

I doubt any new money will be found to properly fund mental health services or school programs instead more and more money is going to be directed at arming and training more and more teachers and in turning schools in to barbed wired fortresses complete with armed guards.

Why Trump is wrong to blame mental health for the Florida shooting - Business Insider

Last edited by Brave New World; 02-23-2018 at 04:30 AM..
 
Old 02-23-2018, 04:09 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,177 posts, read 18,487,967 times
Reputation: 25763
There should be a voluntary program to arm certain school workers, not necessarily teachers, who are mostly women, extremely liberal, and often incompetent.
 
Old 02-23-2018, 05:39 AM
 
58,749 posts, read 27,092,933 times
Reputation: 14186
Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka1 View Post
As usual, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Trump, who never served n the military, wants to arm teachers.

Is there supposed to be some sort of correlation between the 2?FDR NEVER served and he was Sect of the Navy and oh wait as PRESIDENT "Roosevelt obtained a declaration of war on Japan the next day, and a few days later, on Germany and Italy."

Is there ANYTHING you people TDS WON'T try to come up with?

"wants to arm teachers."

Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with arming teachers?

I thought all you liberals deemed teachers to be that smartest, most highly educated people on the earth that you TRUST for teaching our children.

And NOW you claim they CAN'T be trusted with a gun.

What kind of snowflakes do we have as teachers?

Trump ALSO said ONLY those teachers who WANT to, AND other school employees who WANT TO AND with PROPER TRAINING.

I know, I know many of you like to leave out any DETAIL that doesn't fit your agendas.

He also said, maybe a teacher can have gun locked in a drawer in the classroom. and IF something happens AFTER they get the kids under a desk, etc THEN they can get the gun IN CASE someone charges into the classroom with a gun.

Remember the police are only 8 minutes (I challenge that respond time) away.

The person with gun is IN FRONT OF YOU RIGHT NOW!

Posts like yours are one reason why we DON'T have honest adult effective discussions on issues.
 
Old 02-23-2018, 05:45 AM
 
29,194 posts, read 14,474,917 times
Reputation: 14325
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
The shooting at Douglas was over in 6 minutes
How much time does that leave for any effective intervention???

Be real---
The only way to have prevented that boy from shooting those students and teachers was to have shot him first

The one teacher who apparently was told about it from a student who left the building and saw Cruz loading ammunition into his rifle didn't even call it in--
He drove the student off campus using the golf cart he was in when the student found him

That is just screwed up decision making
I can understand the kid not wanting to confront Cruz but the teacher made a bad decision to do what he did
And I don't know that the teacher tried calling 911 during that golf cart ride---not from the story I read the student who escaped told...
Do you know what the word deterrent means ? Criminals don't like prey that fight back.


NOUN
deterrent
  1. a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.

 
Old 02-23-2018, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Mount Dora, FL
3,079 posts, read 3,115,266 times
Reputation: 1577
Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka1 View Post
As usual, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Trump doesn't, he almost NEVER, EVER does. I'd rather support more armed police/guards than teachers with guns. Their was a deputy on site TRAINED and failed to enter the school to confront the killer and we expect our teachers to. C'mon. A little common sense can go a long way.
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