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You can stop trying, ain't gonna happen unless you have proof that every member of Congress was given every bit of intel and advice from the Joint Chiefs that Bush was given.
Your making up facts that they were not given intel into evidence to meet your argument? ooh, I should be used to it by now.
I forgot, you excused Clinton for voting for the war by saying she didnt have all the intel either, but even Clinton is claiming she had a hands on approach to intel while being first lady.
I forgot that you have more evidence then Senator Clinton.
At least those 4000 Americans didn't die in vain. After all, we found huge stockpiles of Weapons of Mass Destruction and Osama bin Laden has been caught.
When I was a Platoon Sargent with the 4th Infantry Division in Viet-Nam (1967-68), it was SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) to over-count enemy casualties and under-count US casualties. The true extent of Iraqi casualties will never be known.
My Uncle told me the same thing as you say Steve. He was in Nam in 67-68 also. He said they made a joke out of body counts on both sides. There was never any attempt to make any accurate counting. It was "oh there's 3 and there is 2 more over there and I suppose there are a dozen behind the treeline and probably 8 more blown up that will never be found".
On counting our own, yes like you said Steve, we were told by the brass to undercount.
So how many have we really lost? No one will ever know. But one thing is for sure, sure as I'm standing here, is that the number 4000 American dead is false and way undercounted.
So is 58,209 dead an accurate number for Nam? Depends.....was Nixon and LBJ more of a liar then bushy?
ITS A WAR.. There are of course going to be casulties..
In addition, NEVER did I let Bush off the hook for the casulties.. I'm trying to get burdell to understand that Congress is just as much to blame for authorizing an attack. Thats ok though to burdell because Clinton was "tricked" into authorizing the war, before she didnt authorize the war, that she actually authorized..
my sensibilities are in reality.. ITS classified as a war.. and at 2 dead per day, its hardly a statistic. More have died in NY from murder (4527) then in Iraq.
I always wonder if those anti-Americans who minimize the deaths and mutilations of American troops in Iraq(or anywhere) can stand face to face with their grieving parents, husbands, wives, children and say "Well, they asked for it....more people die by being murdered or killed in car accidents so I don't CARE about our troops."
Sorry but thats a stupid argument.
Bush was not "The Decider".. Congress is/was, without their decision, he has no legal authority to invade.
Bush is not killing Americans, (unless your a conspiracy nutcase who thinks he planned 911).
These killed Americans CHOSE to register and fight..
I usually agree with you pgh but not this time. Bush is not "The Decider" you are right but he does call himself that. CNN.com - Bush: 'I'm the decider' on Rumsfeld - Apr 18, 2006
He believes he is a Dictator. He did and does call the shots. In this case of this undeclared illegal fake war, it was him who sent our men and women into that God forsaken wasteland. And if he sent them there, the blood is on his hands. The fact that our people volunteered to join the army is of no matter. They are just puppets in bushes war.
And one more time.....back in May of 2003 the Dictator bushy announced to the world "Mission accomplished" we have won the war. Soooooo why are we still there forcing our customs and ways on a culture that has been around 100 times longer then us? It is none of our business what they do. Let them all kill eachother. Then they cant blame America for doing it.
In the mean time, since 2003, we lost another 3000 Americans. Americans who will not get the chance to be anything they want in life. For what?
At least those 4000 Americans didn't die in vain. After all, we found huge stockpiles of Weapons of Mass Destruction and Osama bin Laden has been caught.
What?
Osama Bin Laden was not used as a reason to invade Iraq.. stating that was a reason does not contribute to the argument because even Clinton when voted yes she did so knowing that it was related to 9/11.
The WMDs were found though, just not usable.. that would have been a valid argument for you to use.
At least those 4000 Americans didn't die in vain. After all, we found huge stockpiles of Weapons of Mass Destruction and Osama bin Laden has been caught.
But where did they find Osama? I bet bushy is hiding him in the Whitehouse till November 5th where he will bring him out of hiding and claim he personally caught him.
Since there really seems not end in sight and in all likelihood, the US will be occupying Iraq and Afghanistan for some time, it would be GREAT to reinstate the draft.
It would not only alleviate the stress on our current soldiers whom many have been there too long already but it would make this whole issue a little more personal for everyone. If the Iraq war was on everyones door step then maybe there would be progress one way or the other.
My Uncle told me the same thing as you say Steve. He was in Nam in 67-68 also. He said they made a joke out of body counts on both sides. There was never any attempt to make any accurate counting. It was "oh there's 3 and there is 2 more over there and I suppose there are a dozen behind the treeline and probably 8 more blown up that will never be found".
On counting our own, yes like you said Steve, we were told by the brass to undercount.
So how many have we really lost? No one will ever know. But one thing is for sure, sure as I'm standing here, is that the number 4000 American dead is false and way undercounted.
So is 58,209 dead an accurate number for Nam? Depends.....was Nixon and LBJ more of a liar then bushy?
Thank your uncle for his service to his country. And yes, the "casualty count" process, as described by your uncle, is spot on. IMO, the real casualty count in Viet-Nam far exceeds the "official" government numbers. IMO, the casualty count in the Middle East is very close to actual numbers. Information technology and communications were worlds apart in Viet-Nam from the technologies of today, so it was just too easy to "fake" the numbers on both sides, not so today. There are too many "eyes" watching the counts.
I always wonder if those anti-Americans who minimize the deaths and mutilations of American troops in Iraq(or anywhere) can stand face to face with their grieving parents, husbands, wives, children and say "Well, they asked for it....more people die by being murdered or killed in car accidents so I don't CARE about our troops."
No, they don't have the spine...just the mouth.
Last I heard.. Bush has called every single parent of those who have died in the war.
In addition, NO ONE said that we dont "CARE" about the troops, I'm just getting tired of hearing about the HUGE number.. Its a war.. of course there are going to be casulties.. If you dont think there would be casulties, you'd be on a forum accusing people of being spineless for pointing out facts that more people have been murdered in NY then in Iraq..
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