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Maybe Drive around and look... many of the once middle class communities, have people living in homes, they can't paint, they can't afford to keep their roofing in top shape, even their shrubbery goes without the grooming and trimming that "working class middle class people were able to do, who worked solid Union shop jobs. When Unions were strong, there was no "medical co pay taken out of their check for Insurance, and they had company contributed funds that went into their pensions.
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Part of the Issue during Jim Crow America, it was "white people" (NOT ALL) who detested the thought of black people getting "EQUAL" benefits and services. These same white people, if they are still alive, now face the exact same thing they tried to deny to minority black people. BECAUSE degree riding companies executives realized, if they can have a mass of white people standing up to deny minority black people benefits and services and progressive pay, then the Corporations figured they could use the same ideology to deny the exact same things to white people, and they used the law of equality to justify doing so, and deny the same things to working white people and poor white people.
The problem in American is the Right Wing white people never figured it out, they were happy they could get a line of credit and some credit cards and a new car on credit, and they lived "in perpetual credit debt".. When the jobs dried up and were outsourced, they found the conditions they live and are subjected to declines year by year... They got the exact same things they "wished upon minority black people" and many still have not or can't figure it out. "They did it to themselves, by trying to doing wrong things to minority black people.
NOW - They "whine" I've been left behind. When it was their own attitude and mentality and disposition of bias and bigotry, that put them behind.
They cling to the Right Wing mentality as if it will suddenly make them prosperous, and over all these decades, IT HAS NOT. The mentality of Conservative, and Fiscal Responsibility, did nothing for them, except make the Corporate Heads more Wealthy than they have ever been. And the more wealthy they become, the more disastrous the lives of the average American people become. That's what Conservatism produces... No different than what it produced within the Slave System Confederacy that Created that Idea. The Generation Poor white from that system is still the system of generationally poor whites today, and Conservatism has done not a darn thing for them, but bleed and choke them to death, while telling them their white skin is their salvation.
No one should stay blind that long... Even under the Centuries of Slavery, Black people never stopped pushing forward for "Equality", yet, the poor whites, were used like pawns, to keep racism alive and active... Even Martin Luther King Jr. Tried to explain it to them, in his Speech at Selma, and many other speeches, but their race hate was some overwhelming it blocked their ears, and minds to the truth. Many should go back and read it, because its as relevant today as it was when he gave the speech. It's even more so in the Era of the Divisiveness that Trump Administration has riled up and promoted.
I walk around and shop and I see the struggling poor white people and I have as much empathy for them as I do for the struggling poor minorities that I see. It's a hurting thing to see the seniors' broken down and ailing, and shopping trying to figure out how to stretch small Social Security and even in some cases pensions that are small, to try and figure out how to eat and buy medications.
I know an many Sheriff's who are retired "white men', who are now working second jobs in their late 70's and early 80's trying to figure how to make it. these men are friends, and as one told me, his wife's pension check was not even enough to cover her Medicare Payment. Others have had medical and other issues and trying to help grand-kids who can't find work and they could not afford to send them even to vocational skill training. Ones gets to know these truths, by actually talking with people. I've stood in the stores many times wanting to help some of these people, when they are digging for change to pay for things and feeling embarrassed. I could not help them in many cases, because one can see they want to maintain their sense of self responsible pride. Maybe one should visit a Grocery Store around the first of the month, and actually pay attention to what is real, and the reality that is overt, if one cares to look with compassionate understanding.
I see the poor white people who had a nice piece of land in younger years, trying to hold on to it, but it is now overgrown with weeds and grass, some with houses that are in need of repair and other with trailers, where the paints has come off and they can't even get the junk around it cleaned up. This stuff should not exist in "America", which claims itself as the Wealthiest Nation on the Planet, and with a mass of people claiming to be Billionaires to the point, we have one man who has more than $100 Billion of personal fortune. While there is people trying to live on $600 a month in some places.
Still we have people whining and crying and letting Trump place some ignoramus as Carson, over HUD, which devotes much resources to helping these people with benefit programs. Yet, we can sit back and let a Tax Bill pass that give people $3-4 a day tax relief, when they are not earning anything anyway, while the wealthy get $100's of thousands, to $Billions in Tax relief.
It's insidious that as a Nation of Such Wealth, that we carry a Debt of $20 TRILLION, which in and of itself, tells us that the last thing this nation needs is a massive Tax Cut,m certainly not one that benefits the wealthy in such extremes.
I don't run around gloating about having anything, when such tragedy is all around us. There is no room in consideration of others for Grandstanding.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 02-27-2018 at 01:00 PM..
I worked for a company for more than two decades... and it was simply an American Company before it expanded to be International.
It had a Rule.. and a Responsibility, to not only support the local community, by buying from local business, it had the responsibility to invest and contribute to local causes, in every location it had presence. It had a sense of responsibility to its employees, via supporting Union Shops and Supporting the communities of citizens which support the continuance and sustained the profitability of the company. It made agreement with municipalities for tax and other concession when it opened station in a city, and it honored those agreements.
Sadly....American people were not taught that Civics after the 1970's, and these policies and rules was buried when companies went into International Areas, and 'Degree Riders seeking mass profit, gutted the Ethics of Business and Community Relationships. When that happen, people were too dumbfounded to know how to fight to keep and maintain, ethnic and demand that business uphold its promises. Thus came... Business Closure and Outsourcing.... and America has declined in every economic way since that time.
Yet... UNAWARE, Americans... don't know enough about Civics is what allowed this madness to happen, which is a big contributor to the downfall of American's Industrial, Business and Corporate Ethics...
An UNEDUCATED SOCIETY, that does not understand the Civics of its Governance System and the Ideology of its Formation as being a Democracy... ARE A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER TO THAT SOCIETIES, Governance and Ultimately they are a Danger to that Nations Democracy and the Capitalist System that helps support it and its citizenry and systems.
Lack of Civics Educational Awareness produces an Ignorance within the masses, which proceeds to Destroy Much, and never know they are their own worst enemy through their ignorance.
The breaks and incentives that communities offer companies are already heavily negotiated. The penalties that you are suggesting to be included in the contracts would most likely be deal-breakers. Companies are already making a substantial investment in the community when they decide to build a business in a community. They are already very likely to stay in a community for 25 years or so, or at least as long as the profitability is high and not exceeded by profitability potential elsewhere.
The idea that businesses suddenly began seeking mass profit in the 1970's is puzzling. Do you think Andrew Carnegie wasn't seeking to maximize his profits? That's what businesses do.
The breaks and incentives that communities offer companies are already heavily negotiated. The penalties that you are suggesting to be included in the contracts would most likely be deal-breakers. Companies are already making a substantial investment in the community when they decide to build a business in a community. They are already very likely to stay in a community for 25 years or so, or at least as long as the profitability is high and not exceeded by profitability potential elsewhere.
The idea that businesses suddenly began seeking mass profit in the 1970's is puzzling. Do you think Andrew Carnegie wasn't seeking to maximize his profits? That's what businesses do.
During the Era of Carnegie and Rockefeller, it was "white people" who were fighting for wage and work condition changes, even then, it took President Teddy Roosevelt, to come in and bust up the Monopolies, and promote the many changes that he did, and even then the people still had to fight like crazy against the big companies of Steel and Oil, and it was JP Morgan, who controlled the Banking Industry, which was no a friend to the working poor.
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In 1902 he resurrected the nearly defunct Sherman Antitrust Act by bringing a lawsuit that led to the breakup of a huge railroad conglomerate, the Northern Securities Company. Roosevelt pursued this policy of “trust-busting” by initiating suits against 43 other major corporations during the next seven years. Early in his term, he also sought the creation of an agency that would have the power to investigate businesses engaged in interstate commerce (though without regulatory powers); the Bureau of Corporations was formally established in 1903. Roosevelt put teeth into his Square Deal programs. He pushed Congress to grant powers to the Interstate Commerce Commission to regulate interstate railroad rates. The Hepburn Act of 1906 conveyed those powers and created the federal government’s first true regulatory agency. Also in 1906, Roosevelt pressed Congress to pass the Pure Food and Drug and Meat Inspection acts, which created agencies to assure protection to consumers. The “muckrakers,” investigative journalists of the era, had exposed the squalid conditions of food-processing industries.
It took Henry Ford, to come in with paying higher wages, and promoting programs to contribute to making better society and work place environments.
The history is an amazing things, when people dig into the facts and details of what it has taken to move us to a place where business had to respect people. No business is in business not to make a profit, but profit is not the only thing that matters. It's still people who are the consumers, and it is people who put in the labor, that helps make any business flourish.
There was absolutely no reason Carnegie could not have paid good wages, nor is there a reason why Rockefeller could not have paid good wages. They had more money than they'd ever be able to spend.
Carnegie, realized when he got old.. that why he said, its a "sin for any man to die with such wealth", and he set out to give much back into society, by his philanthropy. Only did Rockefeller get in to that when he saw it as yet, another ego challenge, to see who could give back into society the most before they died.
Power corrupts and it always will... its takes some to get old age and or near death to figure it out, still some never do... Some even structure their wills, to create more havoc long after they are dead.
As to the idea that the thought would be a deal breaker, it would not be so, if "every state enacted such a policy"... Companies use taxpayer infrastructure to support their business growth, and that infrastructure is public citizen funds that paid for it. Look back at the 1970's, I watched massive Tire companies close huge facilities and outsource.. when we have 50 states with cars that may travel more than any other nation on the planet, yet, we outsourced tire manufacturing??? all for the sake of "GREED", there has been no lack of need for car tires and there never was a lack of need for them. It never should have been outsourced, it was done because of Race and Ethnicity Bias and Greed as some pay back upon society for Civil Rights Legislation, because society still did not want to regard minorities as equals and certainly not to have economic equilibrium. As a result it not only hurt minorities, it hurt working white and dire poor white people as an end result.
We have right this very day, Cities Stuck with "BLIGHT" left by companies that just pulled up and left. Because we don't have a Civics Aware society, to have stood up and make the politicians, force these companies to clean up, tear down their dilapidated structures, and restore the land to the better condition they found it. We have business building all across this country that can't be reasonably reconstituted, because they have so much asbestos in it. And the corporate owners just walked away from it.
There are current day Automotive Plants, that were built in the 1980's and cities and parishes invested heavily to modify and build infrastructure to help support that plant. And here we are today, those same companies have gone to Mexico to build plants to produce the same type of vehicle and want to import it back here. Yet, the same company left sprawling plants, and a city and county and state, with a ongoing loss and upkeep cost to maintain the infrastructure they built to support that plant.
Cost Loss to Cities over the Long Term- When business leave in less than 50 yrs.
The opportunity cost loss of what cities, counties an states lost for the funds they put into supporting these plants, could have very well been held as reserve funds as well as funds they could have used to improve their overall city performance and services to the citizen population who lived there, and many still live there long, after the plant has closed and left the massive structures that are difficult to market or re-purpose. If one ever looks at a City Plan, they develop those with a minimum of 50 yrs look ahead, When a massive plant leave 25 or 30 yrs short of that 50 yrs, it is a devastation that only show up after that plant has closed. The communities that sprang up around that plan, began to go into decline, and everything else in the city declines within the cycle.
Yet, now many of these auto plants want us to buy the cars and trucks they make in Mexico.
And here we are railing against some Mexicans who moved here. When fact is, the plant cannot ever be big enough to fills the needs of Mexico's people job need. But, We as a nation, instead of expanding our business to "include Mexico", we shipped it to the other side of the world. It's ludicrous.
We should have long ago been working toward building unity in the North American and Central American Continent, not in the Asian Continent. Now... we whine and cry, but never stop to think, that the vegetable we are so eager to purchase in the grocery stores comes from the same country we are trying to treat their people as if they are some low life non person. When they not only come here and pick our vegetables, they grow it in their country and we buy it from them. Or half the year we'd not even have any fresh vegetables.
Bias, Bigotry Racism, be it racial bias, racial bigotry, or ethnicity bias, or ethnicity bigotry, is the worst thing that could exist in America.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 02-27-2018 at 02:31 PM..
During the Era of Carnegie and Rockefeller, it was "white people" who were fighting for wage and work condition changes, even then, it took President Teddy Roosevelt, to come in and bust up the Monopolies, and promote the many changes that he did, and even then the people still had to fight like crazy against the big companies of Steel and Oil, and it was JP Morgan, who controlled the Banking Industry, which was no a friend to the working poor.
A whole lot of "look over here!" in that extensive post, but not much to actually respond to my remarks.
ONCE more, your advice for communities to impose excessive penalties would be a deal-breaker. The communities are already negotiating with these companies when they offer the incentives. The excessive penalties you propose would simply cause the companies to look elsewhere.
As for the 25-year thing, if the company commits to building a facility, moving personnel into the area, training new employees, they are making a major investment and commitment, so they would likely be there for the next couple of decades unless something drastic happened to their business model, and the profitability was seriously eroded.
A whole lot of "look over here!" in that extensive post, but not much to actually respond to my remarks.
ONCE more, your advice for communities to impose excessive penalties would be a deal-breaker. The communities are already negotiating with these companies when they offer the incentives. The excessive penalties you propose would simply cause the companies to look elsewhere.
As for the 25-year thing, if the company commits to building a facility, moving personnel into the area, training new employees, they are making a major investment and commitment, so they would likely be there for the next couple of decades unless something drastic happened to their business model, and the profitability was seriously eroded.
Business is about making a profit. Period.
Business is about Providing a Product and/or Service to the Citizen Population, and by doing so, they can make a profit.
Most fail because they only think profits. Sustainable Business understands, Product and Service.. as they do, they make profits and they gain sustainability by continuing to provide good products and good service. We saw the decline of the American Automobile for Decades, because they provided poor quality Products, and poor service, and they focused on Profits Only, and nearly Crashed. ONLY, when Obama Era Stimulus invested in them, with a covenant that they produce top quality Products and Provide Superior Services, did they regain their ability to be sustainable. they sold us crap all those decades when they focused ONLY on Profits and it nearly destroyed the American Automotive Industry.
There is the element of profit and there is the element of greed.... look at the history of American and Business. When this nation had "high taxes from 1950's through the 1980's, Business prospered, and they invested in America, because by and through their investment, they got tax credits, but America got the benefit of growth by and through their investments. When the rates went lower, they took that money and ran to "foreign shores", and increased executive pay to astronomical levels, and did massive stock give away's to executives, they cut benefits and stagnated wages, and the same thing will happen with this current massive Tax Cut Give Away.
We built the massive freeway systems all across America, during that period of High Corporate Taxes; Today, we can't even fix and repair what was built by those who lived before these few current generations, since tax cuts.
As to imposition of Penalty and Fine for Industry moving to a Locality... it should be a part of negotiation, and those negotiation must consider equally well any and all use and investment and/or collaborations about public funds. "Ethics" matter!! even if some choose to ignore and or abuse them, it matters.
Jim Crow is over... the sooner people let go of lusting for it, they may awaken to learn, everything in Jim Crow that was done to damage minorities, was also done to damage and diminish the working poor whites and the dire poor whites as well.
If they ever learn that FACT, they will get off the Conservative Diet, which has starved and chocked them at every turn, and think of what is "Democracy, and support "Equality" which is the foundation of Democracy.
who, specifically, is lusting for Jim Crow ideals to return?
Bias, Bigotry Racism, be it racial bias, racial bigotry, or ethnicity bias, or ethnicity bigotry, is the worst thing that could exist in America.
Agreed Racism is absurd. The KKK is a Democrat Party construct How soon can we abolish the party?
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How soon can we abolish the party? 
