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America is the world leader in medical innovation why is that? because of Free market in simple terms. The drive to be the best can only be done by simple greed. ...
Yes, innovation is expensive, and yes, somebody has to pay for it – including covering the risk, the dead-ends and the failures of research. If the entire profession were to be stripped of remunerative potential, indeed, the innovation would suffer, and the global outlook for advances in healthcare would attenuate.
But there’s a middle-ground here: pay practicing physicians less (and lower the academic/tuition/licensing threshold for them to practice medicine), while continuing the pay handsomely the best-and-the-brightest. Just as we need a two-tier healthcare system (low-cost for the masses, boutique-care for those who can afford it), so too, we need a two-tier health compensation system. This is already starting to happen, with considerable success; look for example at the Kroger “Little Clinic”, staffed by a nurse-practitioner, who can prescribe. $85 for a visit. It’s a fantastic deal, for walk-in patients with maladies that are too major for self-medication from the over-the-counter aisle, but not sufficiently grievous for the emergency-room. We should be doing more of this, both in terms of how we pay physicians, and what we charge patients.
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Originally Posted by odinloki1
...Always worried about a lawsuit, angry patients etc, not to mention the opioids. ... If I had a time machine I would stop myself from doing it. It isn't worth it and FYI I would take a 50% paycut if it meant no dealing with insurances and their paperwork, no student loans and no worry about lawsuits.
One glaring trouble with American medicine, is that a physician generally has to be a businessman first, and a physician second. Those who make good money in medicine, do so because they're savvy businessmen. Others, who are no less knowledgeable or talented as medical practitioners, lead stressful and unsung lives, because they lack the business-prowess. If medicine in America were more of a line of employment, and less of a business-venture, physicians would have more capacity to actually practice medicine, and would have less hassle about lawsuits, insurance-claims or bad reviews.
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Originally Posted by Northman83
I would also say that most other Industrialized nations, experienced War. WW1 and WW2.
The US population saw some rationing during WW2, but the general population did not live through full out mechanized warfare that devastated almost all of Europe.
The Europeans understood that you had to stand together and share resources, and everybody should benefit when everybody has been through this....
Very true! And the implications of this go far beyond healthcare, encompassing things like attitudes towards religion, ethnic identity, and international organizations. Europe was eviscerated by the World Wars, and what it meant to be “European” changed radically. The US was largely unscathed, and triumphant. What it meant to be “American” was actually reinforced. America has yet to experience a moderating, chastening experience.
Medicaid pays abut $7,200, Medicaid pays about $10,000, Commercial insurance pays about $16,000
I think it's a great way for all of us to save money but why not carry it a step further with single-payer silicon valley software technicians being single payer which would mean plummeting revenues and software techs making $35,000-$50,000 yearly?
Think of all the money the Peoples would save by lowering the cost of techs thereby lowering the cost of products we purchase everyday!
Medicaid pays abut $7,200, Medicaid pays about $10,000, Commercial insurance pays about $16,000
Germany does not have a single payer health system.
The majority of French doctors are not public servants. They are generally well-paid private physicians. The cost of procedures in France is much lower than in the US.
Here in Canada the average family doctor gets aboout 50,000 per year. That is enough to have a decent life if you budget. If they have a spouse making similar the annual income can be about 80,000 per year.
In Canada though we’re not really materialistic people. Wedon’t Need much more than a little hoouse and your daily dose of Tim horton’s.
So, how much do doctors make? It depends on their specialization and where they live: Overall, total payments to doctors increased by four per cent to reach $25 billion in 2014-15. The average gross pay for a doctor sits at $339,000.
Keep in mind, the amount varies based on doctors’ specialties though: family physicians make about $271,000 while medical specialists make about $338,000 and surgical specialists earn $446,000.
This data is two years old which would suggest the average has gone up.
And Canadians are as materialistic as Americans -- trust me -- I'm a dual citizen who has lived in both countries -- lol.
So why bring new life into such a crappy existence? Medicaid currently pays for 48% of all US births each year. 48%. Half of all kids born in the US each year are born into poverty. How is that not child neglect/abuse?
Medicaid for neonatal care is different from regular Medicaid as the income cap is quite high to qualify. For a family of 2, it can be over $30k. This comes from a time when many people did not get health insurance or when health insurance did not cover much of maternity care. A baby with no or very limited prenatal care can costs hundreds of thousands of not millions of dollars.
Medicaid for neonatal care is different from regular Medicaid as the income cap is quite high to qualify. For a family of 2, it can be over $30k. This comes from a time when many people did not get health insurance or when health insurance did not cover much of maternity care. A baby with no or very limited prenatal care can costs hundreds of thousands of not millions of dollars.
Doesn't matter. Of those born into poverty (aka, their parent(s) cannot financially support them), only 30% ever make it out of poverty their entire lives. Only 30%. At the 48% Medicaid-paid birth statistic, that's not sustainable going forward.
The average primary care doctor in the USA makes 195,000. Considering most of them have six figure student loans -- that's not a huge compensation for all those years of education.
Well here in NC, the land of $35,000 starting salaries for teachers, you could go to Duke for 4 years and end up owing $250,000 in tuition and board costs. I guess no one should become a teacher and go to a good school!
I didn’t make any such comparison. I just posted average gross pay in Canada. No one in this thread, including me, had posted US gross OR net pay.
The thesis of this thread is that salaries for US physicians will go down. Not salary plus overhead, just salary. The Canadian numbers you cited were for salary plus overhead.
So, how much do doctors make? It depends on their specialization and where they live: Overall, total payments to doctors increased by four per cent to reach $25 billion in 2014-15. The average gross pay for a doctor sits at $339,000.
Keep in mind, the amount varies based on doctors’ specialties though: family physicians make about $271,000 while medical specialists make about $338,000 and surgical specialists earn $446,000.
This data is two years old which would suggest the average has gone up.
And Canadians are as materialistic as Americans -- trust me -- I'm a dual citizen who has lived in both countries -- lol.
The "gross pay" includes overhead, not just the doctor's salary.
"While Matheson's gross revenue was a little more than $300,000, his net pay was less than $180,000."
See Table 1 in the link.
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