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Old 02-28-2018, 02:18 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,952 posts, read 17,851,639 times
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The government is held to a lower standard so those in public unions should be paid a lower than market wage.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:34 AM
 
12,265 posts, read 6,466,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
i also agree that public unions should be banned. in fact even FDR hated public unions, and he liked collective bargaining.
FDR was never in risk of losing his job for not laughing at his boss`s jokes or losing his job because the boss wanted to hire a relative.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:39 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,325,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Union dues aren't that much and everyone benefits. Unions negotiate not only wages but benefits. I would love to see these teachers who don't want to pay dues negotiate on their own. They would be payed less because no one cares about one voice but they do care about thousands.
Here's an idea for you!

Exempt homeowners who homeschool their kids from school district property taxes; ditto for others who choose to contribute toward privatized education, with the stipulation that the curriculum be 100% secular and strictly policed against personal, religious or political dogma.

If the public schools run short of funds, cover the shortfall by proportional cuts in administrator and teacher pay. That is nothing more than a variation of the market discipline to which those of us in the private sector must answer.

I can't wait to hear the screaming!

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 02-28-2018 at 02:54 AM..
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
Why?


All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations.


http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445
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Old 02-28-2018, 03:15 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,325,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post


All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations.


Franklin D. Roosevelt: Letter on the Resolution of Federation of Federal Employees Against Strikes in Federal Service
In simpler terms, most (but not all) of the "services" government provides are a natural monopoly, and the citizenry has no choice but to fund them; strong, arrogant unions and a government-mandated monopoly clear the way for all sorts of abuse of undeserved, and unchecked power.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:25 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,820,716 times
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Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
FDR was never in risk of losing his job for not laughing at his boss`s jokes or losing his job because the boss wanted to hire a relative.
you cant do that under civil service laws either, which government employees are protected under. under civil service laws, employees have to be given warnings, certain number during a certain period of time can be cause for termination, last time i knew it was 3 warnings in a six month period. and even then the employee has recourse under the laws, so they cant just be fired and replaced. in fact under the civil service laws, the union cant make a deal with the employer to get rid of the employee, like they can in private unions, if an employee is somewhat troublesome.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you cant do that under civil service laws either, which government employees are protected under. under civil service laws, employees have to be given warnings, certain number during a certain period of time can be cause for termination, last time i knew it was 3 warnings in a six month period. and even then the employee has recourse under the laws, so they cant just be fired and replaced. in fact under the civil service laws, the union cant make a deal with the employer to get rid of the employee, like they can in private unions, if an employee is somewhat troublesome.
What you fail to mention is that without unions an employee would have to find an attorney to represent them in disciplinary hearings. And depending on the severity of an offense a public employee, just like a private employee can be summarily fired.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
In simpler terms, most (but not all) of the "services" government provides are a natural monopoly, and the citizenry has no choice but to fund them; strong, arrogant unions and a government-mandated monopoly clear the way for all sorts of abuse of undeserved, and unchecked power.
I don't have any say in the tax breaks that private companies get from the Government do I? So what's the difference? Private employees are fired for no reason at all other than the employer found someone cheaper willing to do the job, look at the track record of So Cal Edison when they replaced hundreds of IT positions with H1B hires. Guess what, the IT workers at So Cal Edison are not unionized, only the utility workers in the company are. Same with Disney who fired 200 citizens and replaced them with H1B workers, once again a non union company.

You can prattle on about how horrible unions are but if you ever lose your job because you are replaced with a cheaper foreign worker go knock on the CEO's door and tell them you want to complain about it and be prepared to be laughed at. Unions exist for a reason, it's just too bad the koolaid drinkers can't see past the conservative rhetoric to realize the important role that unions play in defending workers.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:51 AM
 
9,617 posts, read 6,060,434 times
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This case will overturn the 1977 case; Abood v. Detroit Board of Education (1977). Public unions do not get to decide, on their own, which dues are reported as being used for political purposes. All public union activity is political by the very nature that politicians are involved. Abood was on its way to being overturned when Justice Scalia passed away.

Unions negotiating with politicians and funding political campaigns in the next breath is the ultimate collusion, you know.
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Old 02-28-2018, 11:01 AM
 
78,326 posts, read 60,527,398 times
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Originally Posted by geofra View Post
Don't work a government job. A person should know what he's getting himself into.
So when you have a politically entrenched, predominantly corrupt union imbedded the ONLY two choices in your mind are to either go along with it or close off an entire area of potential work.

Sorry, I don't see that as some sort of inviolate position one should be able to claim.

I lived in Chicago and it's just story after story after story about relatives of aldermen getting paid for a City union job they never show up to....or the cousin of someone with lots of political clout with a 100k a year job they completely unqualified for or the teachers union head has their wife start a company that then gets awarded fat contracts from another local union and they reciprocate.

With rampant corruption and cronyism in a business, it will eventually fail. In government, they can't fail, they just raise taxes.

Private unions I fully support.

Public unions in bed with the local politicians? That's just a recipe for the taxpayer getting bent over as they trade favors, votes and opportunities back and forth between each other.
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