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You had me until your very last statement. PTSD of course is a major problem and is at the root of many of these types of murders. What do you know that others don't? He is a Veteran. What proof do you have he doesn't have PTSD when in most of these cases that is the problem.
Americans go overseas in one piece and after just witnessing the after affects of combat they can fall victim to PTSD.
You ask "Why should American soldiers always have to feel the so called guilt?". Maybe they're asking themselves the question of "why are we over there". When you kill someone, even while defending yourself, guilt can creep in.
I did not say he didn't have PTSD
I said PTSD does not create psychopath. Saying PTSD is the CAUSE is a very lazy argument.
And with all due respect, I certainly haven't met an American Marine or soldier who felt guilty. It is ALL in your head.
This whole, "Oh, they all feel guilty for killing these defenseless brown people" is just ridiculous to say the least.
Give it a rest, dude, you will never convince me on this one. So just agree to disagree. I've lost many friends and loved ones on battlefield, don't expect me to have any mad love towards the enemies. Survivor guilt and the guilt of killing are two completely different things, by the way.
WWII vets fought a justifiable war, as did those in Korea. There is a huge burden on today's veterans for fighting in wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan that are simply not justifiable. Guilt, regret, and depression can dog these soldiers for life.
Korea??? Maybe I missed the part about Korea attacking our country. What place did they hit, Wally World?
Korea was just like Vietnam and ever other place we've sent Americans after WW2 in order to force our will on others, nation build and expand our empire.
I have several friends who are diagnosed with PTSD. They are combat veterans and I trust them with my own life.
I know a guy who is in the Army reserve, never seen combat. Somehow, he suffers from Paranoid schizophrenia. I think Army should kick him out.
Since you don't understand, why don't you live it then comment? Go over seas into a combat area and witness the carnage and see if you come out unaffected.
So people who aren't involved in the actual combat but witness the aftermath can't have PTSD? Glad you aren't the one making that call as many would not get the help they need.
According to you as long as you know a very small insignificant number of vets with PTSD there actions speak for all others suffering from PTSD? All levels of PTSD are the same right? Your comments are absurd and insulting to those who suffer from severe PTSD.
I said PTSD does not create psychopath. Saying PTSD is the CAUSE is a very lazy argument.
No it's not a lazy arguement. That's just something you've made up and have no proof.
Your arguement based on, I dont know what, is about your views that the person on question cannot suffer from PTSD because of what he did when the fact remains many times the very same incident happens and the person has PTSD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
And with all due respect, I certainly haven't met an American Marine or soldier who felt guilty. It is ALL in your head.
It's all in YOUR head because you made it up. You don't think Marines suffer remorse? hahaha
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
This whole, "Oh, they all feel guilty for killing these defenseless brown people" is just ridiculous to say the least.
That's just you making things up again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
Give it a rest, dude, you will never convince me on this one.
You don't get to dictate to me what I should or shouldn't discuss dudette. It's a common theme used by those who cannot use facts during a discussion so they try to shut it down. The extreme left pulls this garbage too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
So just agree to disagree. I've lost many friends and loved ones on battlefield, don't expect me to have any mad love towards the enemies.
No ones saying you should. That's just another thing you've made up in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
Survivor guilt and the guilt of killing are two completely different things, by the way.
If you read his backstory, how he grew up without parents, and then realize he went to Afghanistan for one year in 2011-2012 (far less than a lot of other soldiers have served there, and due to the declining death rate, likely far safer) but he went over there as someone who already had issues (abandonment, no family support network, etc.)
Then factor in that he was 30 years old in Afghanistan and either an E-3 or E-4 at the time (it said he was an E-4 at discharge). A lot of his fellow soldiers of that rank were teenagers, and he was 30, which was likely uncomfortable for him at times. I know how we used to look at people who were 10 years older than we were and the same rank when I was in. So while he maybe came back from Afghanistan with issues, there is no doubt in my mind that he went to Afghanistan with issues, and anyone growing up in his circumstances is going to be affected by it.
I don't think it's fair to blame PTSD for these murders, this was someone who already had issues and was far more likely to suffer from PTSD as a result of this pre existing condition than someone from a healthy background. Just factor in all the people who saw a lot more bloodshed and far greater magnitude of PTSD as a result, and have not done anything like this.
Also remember he was in the Guard/Reserves from 1998 to 2001, got out, and could have signed up and gone to Iraq as a young man, and fought at the height of a bloody war there, but he declined. Instead he waited for 10 years, until he was 30 and things were far less chaotic, to serve in a combat zone.
Korea??? Maybe I missed the part about Korea attacking our country. What place did they hit, Wally World?
Korea was just like Vietnam and ever other place we've sent Americans after WW2 in order to force our will on others, nation build and expand our empire.
Give it a rest if that's the best you can do. Clearly you cannot factor in that this war happened 5 years after WWII and was fought by some of the same soldiers. Those who were not WWII veterans knew plenty of them and knew how they were treated and how they acted when they returned home from the Pacific or Europe. They were expected to fight, and act, accordingly.
I could go on, but don't feel like explaining why to you, as I doubt you'd understand anyway.
Why don't YOU give it a rest since you made the dumb statement and can't back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny
Clearly you cannot factor in that this war happened 5 years after WWII and was fought by some of the same soldiers.
And? So? My point, which you ignored, was it had absolutely nothing to do with protecting our borders and no one attacked us. Lets see if you ignore that again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny
Those who were not WWII veterans knew plenty of them and knew how they were treated and how they acted when they returned home from the Pacific or Europe. They were expected to fight, and act, accordingly.
And? So? Plenty of soldiers came back messed up, but we didn't have a phrase for it. You're not going to deny that quite a few came back with mental health issues are you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny
I could go on, but don't feel like explaining why to you, as I doubt you'd understand anyway.
lol you haven't explained anything of value anyway.
If you read his backstory, how he grew up without parents, and then realize he went to Afghanistan for one year (far less than a lot of other soldiers have served there, and due to the declining death rate, likely far safer) but he went over there as someone who already had issues (abandonment, no family support network, etc.)
Then factor in that he was 30 years old in Afghanistan and either an E-3 or E-4 at the time (it said he was an E-4 at discharge). A lot of his fellow soldiers of that rank were teenagers, and he was 30, which was likely uncomfortable for him at times. I know how we used to look at people who were 10 years older than we were and the same rank when I was in. So while he maybe came back from Afghanistan with issues, there is no doubt in my mind that he went to Afghanistan with issues, and anyone growing up in his circumstances is going to be affected by it.
I don't think it's fair to blame PTSD for these murders, this was someone who already had issues and was far more likely to suffer from PTSD as a result of this pre existing condition than someone from a healthy background. Also remember he was in the Guard/Reserves from 1998 to 2001, got out, and could have signed up and gone to Iraq as a young man, and fought at the height of a bloody war there, but he declined. Instead he waited for 10 years, until he was 30 and things were far less chaotic, to serve in a combat zone.
I agree, especially your last paragraph. I don't believe at all PTSD is the cause of it.
I remember several months ago my friend committed suicide, he complained about "racing thoughts" He said, "If and only if I could get my mind to shut up for a while." He was diagnosed with PTSD.
The therapist I am currently working with said that Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and traumatic brain injury (TBI) often coexist because brain injuries are often sustained in traumatic experiences. I think my friend's suicide is due to TBI because he had a brain injury. TBI is caused by trauma and there is symptom overlap, it can be hard to tell what the underlying problem is.
Many people don't know this, PTSD is a mental disorder, but the associated stress can cause physical damage. TBI is a neurological disorder caused by trauma to the brain. Many veterans have been misdiagnosed, PTSD is an easy diagnosis, but many actually suffer from TBI which is caused by Trauma in the brain.
Individuals with PTSD have an elevated prevalence of risk factors that are associated with increased violence, such as substance misuse and comorbid psychiatric disorders. Because of this, findings regarding the relationship between PTSD and violence should be interpreted cautiously if they are based on analyses that do not take risk factors other than PTSD into account.
I think it is safe to assume that there are a lot of things going wrong in this person's mind and blaming on war and PTSD is just silly. (not saying war is good or justified) Just saying blaming everything on PTSD is just stupid.
Long story short, Although PTSD is associated with increased risk of violence, most people with PTSD have never engaged in violence. Research suggests that when risk and protective factors correlated with PTSD are considered, the association between PTSD and violence diminishes. Consequently, it is important to consider a wide array of risk factors in addition to PTSD in order to understand the relationship between PTSD and violence.
He might suffer from other psychological disorder, we never know. My friend was diagnosed with some sort of personality disorder, and then PTSD, then depression, then PTSD again. He still had a bullet stuck in his brain prior to his suicide. That is all we know. The therapist I work with right now says my friend seemed to suffer from TBI (traumatic brain injury)
Nothing changed the fact that some idiots would insist my friend killed himself because he felt guilty. No, he didn't. I can assure you that .
Why don't YOU give it a rest since you made the dumb statement and can't back it up.
And? So? My point, which you ignored, was it had absolutely nothing to do with protecting our borders and no one attacked us. Lets see if you ignore that again.
And? So? Plenty of soldiers came back messed up, but we didn't have a phrase for it. You're not going to deny that quite a few came back with mental health issues are you?
lol you haven't explained anything of value anyway.
Give it a rest if that's the best you can do.
Hey, I tried, and stated up front you wouldn't understand. I rest my case.
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Maybe I missed the part about Korea attacking our country. What place did they hit, Wally World?
