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Old 03-11-2018, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,251 posts, read 2,531,016 times
Reputation: 3122

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
I don't disagree with your first statement that Democrats don't represent working people they pander to coastal elites and big corporations. However if the dems were a left wing party they would assuredly be representing the interests of workers thats basically what a left wing party does. Democrats are a center right political party. I believe if Americans were given real choice a true left wing party could thrive in the United States.
Yup. "Democrats would rather lose to a republican than win with a progressive." - Jimmy Dore


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usnxoskl3us
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Homeless
17,720 posts, read 13,430,051 times
Reputation: 11992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
Not true. Just as an example, let's say there were 100k steel workers in 1970 and there are 50k today. By reopening these steel & aluminum plants there's no reason we can't up that to 75k workers. It will never be as big as it once was, but it's still requires workers. More plants & blast furnaces mean more workers.


Might want to go check out a steal plant at some point it doesn't require the number of workers you might thing if fully automated. I work in one and each of the three shifts have less then 20 people working at the plant. That doesn't count management of course just the people on the floor of the plant. Other then doing the paper work we do during the shift and after a machine can do anything else. The machines where I work do 90% of the work already.
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,251 posts, read 2,531,016 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
Might want to go check out a steal plant at some point it doesn't require the number of workers you might thing if fully automated. I work in one and each of the three shifts have less then 20 people working at the plant. That doesn't count management of course just the people on the floor of the plant. Other then doing the paper work we do during the shift and after a machine can do anything else. The machines where I work do 90% of the work already.
True, but you can't exclude management, office maintenance, restaurants. Contractors that are called to maintain and service equipment, etc.

As a union electrician, I've worked in many plants that did not have many floor workers. A few people running the lines and bouncing between tasks, middle managers, and fork lift drivers. The occasional cleaning lady, then us and the other trades, welders, HVAC, plumbing, concrete, communications, security, dry wallers, painters.

Is it enough benefit to overcome the potential loss? I have no idea. But we live in a different time, maybe we'll figure out how to make it work, maybe we won't. I think it's worth trying.
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:55 PM
 
9,296 posts, read 16,587,356 times
Reputation: 15749
Unions are no longer the powerful organization they once were. Their membership has been dwindling for years. They priced themselves out of the market.
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Homeless
17,720 posts, read 13,430,051 times
Reputation: 11992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings View Post
True, but you can't exclude management, office maintenance, restaurants. Contractors that are called to maintain and service equipment, etc.

As a union electrician, I've worked in many plants that did not have many floor workers. A few people running the lines and bouncing between tasks, middle managers, and fork lift drivers. The occasional cleaning lady, then us and the other trades, welders, HVAC, plumbing, concrete, communications, security, dry wallers, painters.

Is it enough benefit to overcome the potential loss? I have no idea. But we live in a different time, maybe we'll figure out how to make it work, maybe we won't. I think it's worth trying.


We have one maintenance man, well two but he runs one of the machines. One person runs three machines. The main guy who is supposed to maintain the machines needs to be replaced he knows the machines but doesn't like to do a damn thing. Three people in the office there is no HVAC your cold or your hot. If there is anything like painting to be done we do it, etc. The one maintenance guy does most of it if you can get him too. Fork lift driver we have 4 more then enough.


In the end there isn't much other then the paperwork I mentioned that anyone can do, they could get rid of MOST of the machine operators and go fully automated for the most part.


As I said before it's too early to tell which way this will go. Time will tell.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,251 posts, read 2,531,016 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
We have one maintenance man, well two but he runs one of the machines. One person runs three machines. The main guy who is supposed to maintain the machines needs to be replaced he knows the machines but doesn't like to do a damn thing. Three people in the office there is no HVAC your cold or your hot. If there is anything like painting to be done we do it, etc. The one maintenance guy does most of it if you can get him too. Fork lift driver we have 4 more then enough.


In the end there isn't much other then the paperwork I mentioned that anyone can do, they could get rid of MOST of the machine operators and go fully automated for the most part.


As I said before it's too early to tell which way this will go. Time will tell.
I've done a lot of work in wire plant here in town. They milled the copper ore, but the aluminum was shipped in rod form from Bahrain, a tiny island in the middle east.

There was talk about adding an aluminum rod mill so that they would no longer have to import it, and this was about 2 years ago. I'm curious how this will affect their decision to build an aluminum rod mill.

The copper rod mill itself was hot and dirty as hell, but they did have a climate control for the electrical switch gear and dog house. Before I quit (because I didn't want to work there in the summer, and it stung the lungs to breathe the air near the furnace), they were gearing up to install a UPS system so that the molten copper wouldn't seize up on the line in the event of a power outage. It would stay on long enough to run the last of the copper off the line.

Anyway, this is closer to the end product, whereas I've never worked in a steel or aluminum plant.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Homeless
17,720 posts, read 13,430,051 times
Reputation: 11992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings View Post

The copper rod mill itself was hot and dirty as hell, but they did have a climate control for the electrical switch gear and dog house. Before I quit (because I didn't want to work there in the summer, and it stung the lungs to breathe the air near the furnace), they were gearing up to install a UPS system so that the molten copper wouldn't seize up on the line in the event of a power outage. It would stay on long enough to run the last of the copper off the line.

Anyway, this is closer to the end product, whereas I've never worked in a steel or aluminum plant.


Here in the summers it can get 120 in the building we do have HUGE fans and they keep the bay doors open but that's about it. There is SOME heat in the building but there are not enough to keep you really warm just enough to keep you toasty. While the work is easy and time does go quickly I'm not sure how much longer I want to be there because of the lack of heat of some decent ventilation. and being 50 it can take it's toll on you and leave you too tired to want to do anything when you get home.


The pay is VERY good for this area and keeps people there dispute the heat and the cold.
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,879 posts, read 25,813,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
The average American doesn't care about a net effect on the deficit, which may or may not even be true. They care about saving $2500 a year in taxes. The Democrats know this, which is why they've been calling for tax cuts for the middle & working classes for decades & why they've had to work so hard to spin the tax cuts as a negative. First the tax cuts were going to make everyone pay more, then they were only going to be for the rich, then people realized they'd save an average of $2500 per family. No one outside of the most delusional Trump haters pays any attention to what Democrats say about the tax cuts anymore since they've been wrong every step of the way so far.

The steel industry will never come back to life? There have already been announcements of three facilities reopening or expanding, with 1800+ new jobs coming to the important swing states of Ohio & Pennsylvania. Due to automation, the steel industry will never be what it was in 1970, but it will get much bigger than it is currently. There's no reason we can't manufacture all of our own steel and export steel to boot. Going around telling swing state voters that their jobs will never come back is not a winning argument, but you're welcome to it.
Taxpayers always love a tax cut what's not to like, but that doesn't mean its based on sound financial judgement. Like I indicated it did give a boost to the economy but it needs to be analyzed over at least a year to fairly judge the impact, not two months.


I still don't see anything specific on the tariffs, a large majority of our imports come from Brazil and Canada, are they going to increase their tariffs. How does a company hire based on something that is so completely vague a few weeks after the announcement. If a country like China is cheating then he should increase their tariffs but you need details to make a business decision.
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