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Even on the rare occasions when a victory falls into his lap, Trump finds a way to foul it up. He and his staff are putting conditions on North Korea about "denuclearizing', before they will arrange a meeting, that was unexpectedly offered by them, through representatives from South Korea. If you read all the way through this linked article, it explains how the North Koreans anticipated Trump's stubborn and demanding attitude and will use it to score a victory for themselves.
The proposed meeting won't even have to take place, for them to come out as winners, thanks to Trump's insistence on having things completely his way. Trump's demand of North Korea to take "concrete steps" towards ending its nuclear program, before he will agree to a meeting, is the same as saying he won't participate in it. Entering into an open discussion, with both sides on even ground, is a concept unknown to Trump. It has to be all about Trump, with him in the dominant position or he won't play ball.
Robert Gallucci, an expert on the North Korean threat, was a commentator on NPR's All Things Considered today and suggested that any negotiations with that country would be a long-term process and a great amount of patience would be needed on our part. Nothing is long-term with Trump and patience is not included in his toolbox.
Why in a million years should Trump ease up on DPRK? They don't want the meeting to be his pal. Un wants money, and with $61 oil Russia doesn't have much to spare. That's all there is to it. I'm a pretty cool-headed person but it's time Trump turned the place into a glass parking lot.
This is one of the boggiest LOL troll threads I've come across on CD in a long time, and that's saying something.
We didn't realize that you were a diplomat, and moreover had security clearance. Remind us, what do you do for a living?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
OP started the thread when the White House was still in flux.
On Friday afternoon it looked like the White House was trying to find a way out, when at the press conference Sanders added "denuclearization" to the list of concrete and verifiable steps that the NK must be taking for the meeting to occur. The press confused, asked for a clarification: TALKING about denuclearization or actual denuclearization. Sanders doubled down on the denuclearization.
The White House clarified (shifted with no doubt intense on-going internal discussions) later in the day. Concrete and verifiable steps now applies only to what the NK first proposed (no interim testing, no interference with military field exercises). I haven't yet read the papers today.
This should not be playing out in the press like this but since Trump chose to take that route on Thursday night we seem to now all be diplomats. Fair enough, for the stakes are high. Your opinion?
Yes, Trump and people in the White House were taking different positions and making more demands when I posted this. Things seem to have changed quite a bit in two days, at least on the surface. This is one time that I'm hoping Trump will do the right thing and succeed, making my OP even more outdated.
Yes, it shows everyone just how deranged the Trump haters are.
NO.
It shows that Trump says and does things WITHOUT THINKING things through. THEN, people have to come behind him to “clarify” what he really means or rectify a faux pas.
Even on the rare occasions when a victory falls into his lap, Trump finds a way to foul it up. He and his staff are putting conditions on North Korea about "denuclearizing',
Umm... it was the North Koreans who suggested the topic of "denuclearizing". Not Trump.
Maybe you should get at least some of your information from people who don't chronically hate Trump badly enough to distort and lie about what he says.
They should have conditions. Kim will gain enormous stature from any meeting with a US president.
Trump was really stupid to charge into this thing without getting something in return.
Exactly right. This was a massive propaganda victory for Kim. To say that Trump and his supporters are naïve is an understatement.
Kim's nuclear tests and missile launches have achieved North Korea's goal, to get the president of the US to the negotiating table.
Even on the rare occasions when a victory falls into his lap, Trump finds a way to foul it up. He and his staff are putting conditions on North Korea about "denuclearizing', before they will arrange a meeting, that was unexpectedly offered by them, through representatives from South Korea. If you read all the way through this linked article, it explains how the North Koreans anticipated Trump's stubborn and demanding attitude and will use it to score a victory for themselves. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer
Umm... it was the North Koreans who suggested the topic of "denuclearizing". Not Trump.
Maybe you should get at least some of your information from people who don't chronically hate Trump badly enough to distort and lie about what he says.
You'll make less of a fool of yourself.
In the 4-hour meeting with the S. Koreans, Kim indicated that he would be open to denuclearization - that he wanted to talk about giving up his nuclear program (NYT reporting). At least that appears to be the case for there's not yet a direct proposal from NK nor did the S. Koreans have anything in writing. Rather, they were briefing WH officials on last Monday's meeting with Kim. Still ... Kim wants to meet Trump.
What Sanders did at the press conference was to specify that the North Koreans must be taking concrete and specific ACTIONS for any meeting to occur. At one point, she even said they had promised to denuclearize, which may have been a simple misstatement?
Sanders then put denuclearization on the conditions list (along with the no missile testing nor interference with the field exercises which were the sweeteners that Kim specified in his initial offer). The latter two are measurable, the former is not. This led to all kinds of questions about how the WH could possible know whether Kim was actually denuclearizing BEFORE a meeting theoretically 2 months away that duh was to talk about denuclearizing.
Obviously impossible plus not what Kim appeared to be offering ... so that's why it LOOKED like the WH was trying to back out of the talks. The WH then appeared to shift positions later that day after the press conference to match the apparent Kim offer.
Not sure where it all stands now but - like the OP - I sure hope for the best.
This is so tricky for I think Trump basically incompetent (cards on the table). So, sure, I view his actions through that filter - and, yes, I think Trump's rush to announce this on Thursday night was a mistake and that even an early announcement should have been better thought out, even perhaps AFTER a formal offer had been received.
So - do better Trump, and good luck. My humble take.
The idea that the U.S. can control what other nations do is somewhat outdated.
We can refuse to have anything to do with nations that are a threat.
We can negotiate and pay for what we want them to do.
We can attack and engage in yet another endless war. Though, to be fair, a nuclear war may not drag on for decades.
But that's it.
We don't get to dictate what North Korea, or any other nation does. That's not how it works.
North Korea is not going to give up its nukes. Only a fool would do this.
What they are going to do is use Trump.
Fine by me.
Normally, I'd guess not given Korean history. Still this missile testing changes the whole dynamic to where China perhaps has to intervene. For Trump is right ... that we cannot allow.
No idea if the Chinese would ever participate formally in any talks, but if I were President EveryLady my best-case scenario would be for 4-way talks ... with China, NK, SK, and the US with an agreement that gives Kim the security guarantees that he needs.
But it's all so complicated ...no idea of Kim's power position within the NK ... sure maybe he's killed off enough rivals like his uncle that he can denuclearize without effective opposition from the entrenched NK power class.
My problem is that while I don't know ... I really doubt Trump did either on Thursday night.
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