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Old 03-14-2018, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,261,787 times
Reputation: 19952

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Wrong. Just ask the Supreme Court. The PEOPLE are the militia. It is an Individual Right. You don't need to be a part of the Federal National Guard to own, and CARRY a gun with NO restrictions, nor INFRINGEMENTAS.
In what decision regarding definition of militia was that stated?

 
Old 03-14-2018, 04:11 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,624,265 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
So you refuse to acknowledge the authority of 9 politically appointed people in black robes to proscribe the outer limits of your rights in modern society because you believe your rights are proscribed by 39 people in white powder wigs who died 200+ years ago? Makes sense.
They have no authority to alter my rights, as determined existed before they were allowed to exist.
The text of the 2nd amendment says different than 9 opinions do. It wasn't an unopposed majority. It was an opinion, not a fact.
 
Old 03-14-2018, 04:12 PM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,443,162 times
Reputation: 24980
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
Get a new hobby/obsession that doesn't involve deadly weapons.

Your life will improve.
What's your criteria for deadly? Or is just that you hate guns and the idea of someone having a useful tool for self defense?
 
Old 03-14-2018, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
9,019 posts, read 14,291,129 times
Reputation: 11032
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
They have no authority to alter my rights, as determined existed before they were allowed to exist.
The text of the 2nd amendment says different than 9 opinions do. It wasn't a majority, it was an opinion, not a fact.
The same text that gives you the second lays the groundwork for changing those amendments, and potentially altering previous versions. "They" can do what "they" wish, if they have the votes and support.
 
Old 03-14-2018, 04:13 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,739 posts, read 7,610,204 times
Reputation: 15006
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
There are 2 comma's in the 2nd amendment.

state,..... arms,
add
The version proposed by the House and Senate said:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

That's what was sent to the states for ratification. It had one comma, and was grammatically correct.

Later a "Committee on Style and Prose" added two more commas, so the finished (and inaccurate) version had three and read:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Some people still try to pretend that that inaccurate version was the "official" one, though it was never proposed or ratified.
 
Old 03-14-2018, 04:15 PM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,586,584 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
They have no authority to alter my rights, as determined existed before they were allowed to exist.
The text of the 2nd amendment says different than 9 opinions do. It wasn't an unopposed majority. It was an opinion, not a fact.
So you’re just accepting the view promulgated by 39 people from the 1700s as opposed to 9 people from 2018 because it fits your narrative better? Sounds like outcome-based cherrypicking, and a bunch of subjective BS, to me.
 
Old 03-14-2018, 04:33 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,624,265 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
Yup. The “natural right” idea is just another way of saying “the right to do whatever the f I want.” I have just as much of a “natural right” to stab a child in the neck with an ice pick as you have to carry a gun.
Natural common law, has centuries precedence.

[1] William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1765-1769), vol. 1, 67.
[2] Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay, The Federalist (Middletown, CT: Wesleyan University Press, 1961; orig. 1787-1788), no. 78, 526.
[3] See H.L.A. Hart, The Concept of Law (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1961), ch. 7.
[4] In Steve Sheppard, ed., Selected Writings of Sir Edward Coke (Indianapolis: Liberty Fund, 2003).The traditional citation of the famous passage is 8 Co. Rep. 118a.
[5] Sir Matthew Hale, The History of the Common Law of England (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1971; orig. written before 1676), 40.
[6]See Bradley Watson's article on Oliver Wendell Holmes.
 
Old 03-14-2018, 04:38 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,624,265 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax View Post
One other major point on the ramifications of this:

It literally does not matter what you BELIEVE your rights are, the only thing that matters is what the power structure that will exert force to defend or enforce the rights believe your rights are. Again, philosophy can be used to attempt to change the alignment and direction of this concentrated power through reason and discourse, but if you are an outlier in your beliefs of what your rights are - they will not stop the power structure in control from enforcing their version upon you.

Luckily here in America MOST of the big "beliefs" about human rights MOST people have are aligned with the "beliefs" of the power structure, which makes sense because it is controlled by a form of consensus. In places through history (and now) where a majority of people in an area are NOT aligned with the power concentration in that area - that is when you get genocide and/or revolt - which are respectively an attempt by the existing structure to quash the gathering of power outside of its control, and a bottom up attempt to gather power to change the dominant power structure (and again, for the revolt to succeed it needs to be able to bring a greater concentration of power to bear).
I gotta spread the love, before I can rep you again.
 
Old 03-14-2018, 04:40 PM
 
52,431 posts, read 26,628,813 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
In what decision regarding definition of militia was that stated?
It was decided in 1789.
A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the People, being the best security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed, but no one religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.

Part of the ratification process.

It's a moot point. The US Supreme Ct. has ruled that it means Americans have the right to own and bear arms.
 
Old 03-14-2018, 04:42 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,624,265 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
In what decision regarding definition of militia was that stated?
McDonald v. Chicago.
The one that repealed all gun legislation.
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