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Old 03-17-2018, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,275,575 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Well we saw the same thing then you just missed it the first time around is all.

What is TDS?

Edit: Hardeharhar: Trump Derangement Syndrome knock off of Obama Derangement Syndrome

I'm always suspicious of people that paint their distractors as mentally ill. ODS is not something I would have been OK with even as a Lib. People have different viewpoints. I think we should be very careful with calling people "insane" "mentally ill" just because they disagree. It can be used for manipulation as cited below. We're ALL Americans, TDS or ODS or apathy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politi...e_Soviet_Union
I'd say all statists have a derangement syndrome. And I don't consider myself an American. I never signed anything.

Other than that...fair enough.

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Old 03-17-2018, 06:27 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,802 posts, read 6,247,578 times
Reputation: 5041
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
The difference is, at least for many of the conservatives...Obama said he would meet with dictators without preconditions. Trump said he needed preconditions.

There is a difference.

I don't necessarily mind meeting with a dictator without preconditions per se and do think Obama was unfairly criticized for that willingness. However, you can clearly hear some of the conservatives in the video criticizing Obama for not having "preconditions." Trump has stated that there will be preconditions.

This nuance will be too difficult for TDS sufferers.
I was warming to your point of view until you added that last line. You have a choice to make, you can get your point across or you can be insulting, but you can't do both.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,275,575 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
The difference is, at least for many of the conservatives...Obama said he would meet with dictators without preconditions. Trump said he needed preconditions.

There is a difference.

I don't necessarily mind meeting with a dictator without preconditions per se and do think Obama was unfairly criticized for that willingness. However, you can clearly hear some of the conservatives in the video criticizing Obama for not having "preconditions." Trump has stated that there will be preconditions.

This nuance will be too difficult for TDS sufferers.
We saw that in the WH's press release: preconditions will be made and NK reaching out is also seen as a precondition by the Right.

There is a difference but you're right...TDS is entrenched.

Most of the cons in the OP's clips mentioned Obama's specific speech citing no preconditions. Those that didn't or said "they will always hate us" I suppose are being hypocritical to some extent if they are supporting Trump.

I'd say the bigger point is here we have another issue the Left has pounced on and there's little to nothing there. Trump is one of the most flawed human beings in public view, never mind just politics, and they've had no strategy to defeat this guy for going on 3 years. It speaks volumes of their own issues and lack of principles.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:42 PM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,403,728 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
We saw that in the WH's press release: preconditions will be made and NK reaching out is also seen as a precondition by the Right.

There is a difference but you're right...TDS is entrenched.

Most of the cons in the OP's clips mentioned Obama's specific speech citing no preconditions. Those that didn't or said "they will always hate us" I suppose are being hypocritical to some extent if they are supporting Trump.

I'd say the bigger point is here we have another issue the Left has pounced on and there's little to nothing there. Trump is one of the most flawed human beings in public view, never mind just politics, and they've had no strategy to defeat this guy for going on 3 years. It speaks volumes of their own issues and lack of principles.
The pre-conditions came later, as a backtrack, after all of the fawning and drooling at Fox had begun.

So, deflection fail.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:45 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,802 posts, read 6,247,578 times
Reputation: 5041
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Well we saw the same thing then you just missed it the first time around is all.

What is TDS?

Edit: Hardeharhar: Trump Derangement Syndrome knock off of Obama Derangement Syndrome

I'm always suspicious of people that paint their distractors as mentally ill. ODS is not something I would have been OK with even as a Lib. People have different viewpoints. I think we should be very careful with calling people "insane" "mentally ill" just because they disagree. It can be used for manipulation as cited below. We're ALL Americans, TDS or ODS or apathy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politi...e_Soviet_Union
I wanted to add another example of this tactic being used. I speak out against the group I was raised in. That makes me an apostate. Here is what the leaders of that group have to say:Well, apostates are “mentally diseased,” and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings. (1 Tim. 6:3, 4)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011524

This experience is the main reason I see this ODS or TDS as such a problem.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,275,575 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
The pre-conditions came later, as a backtrack, after all of the fawning and drooling at Fox had begun.

So, deflection fail.
The original article was from spring/summer 2017 a few pages back where Trump said he would "love to meet with Kim". Then the WH released a statement saying he meant as long as a lengthy list of preconditions were met.

So for starters, there's that.

Then this latest round of ice breaking began with Kim initiating contact. That in itself is a precondition according to the Right due to the tensions and chess play over the last 10 or so months (since Trump's original remarks).

And it's not my deflection. It's the Right's deflection. I'm just telling you what it is and how it is. Also, the deflection isn't nearly at the scale you are making it out to be but again...the blind hatred for Trump will do that.

You guys keep forgetting I hate both teams. One of the other anarchist posters said the other day that Trump Derangement Syndrome makes Obama Derangement Syndrome look like a case of the sniffles.

This is how Team Blue looks to objective anarchists who can't stand either of you guys.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,275,575 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I wanted to add another example of this tactic being used. I speak out against the group I was raised in. That makes me an apostate. Here is what the leaders of that group have to say:Well, apostates are “mentally diseased,” and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings. (1 Tim. 6:3, 4)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011524

This experience is the main reason I see this ODS or TDS as such a problem.
I wouldn't sweat that though. You know the difference now.

If we really go down this rabbit hole I'm technically the mentally unstable person in this discussion because I don't believe in the State. And that's not hyperbole it's truth.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:59 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,802 posts, read 6,247,578 times
Reputation: 5041
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I wouldn't sweat that though. You know the difference now.

If we really go down this rabbit hole I'm technically the mentally unstable person in this discussion because I don't believe in the State. And that's not hyperbole it's truth.
I do know it and I'm seeing it used again.
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Old 03-17-2018, 07:43 PM
 
26,312 posts, read 14,916,050 times
Reputation: 14490
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I was warming to your point of view until you added that last line. You have a choice to make, you can get your point across or you can be insulting, but you can't do both.
#1 You were "warming to my point of view," because it is 100% factual and there is no legitimate argument against it.


-Obama clearly said he would meet with any dictator without preconditions.

-Republicans were mostly criticizing Obama for meeting a dictator without preconditions.

-Your video from "Now This News" even included multiple points where the Republicans criticizing Obama were focused on Obama not having preconditions.

-Trump said he would meet North Korea if there were preconditions met.

-What Trump said he would do and what Obama said he would do (but didn't) are not the same thing and there is no honest way to say it is.



#2 I didn't say that you had TDS. Are you honestly saying that "Now This News" is an even keeled broker on Trump? The video you posted is BS...did they do a poor job thinking or did they intend to lie? You don't think some people will look at the points in #1 and then still insist and repeat that there is a major hypocrisy in blaming Obama for having no preconditions, but praising Trump for having preconditions?

You kind of are doing that too...you are "warming" to my facts presented, chose not to attempt to intellectually challenge it, but then won't accept it, because I pointed out that those who hate Trump will ignore the facts. Ahem....
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Old 03-17-2018, 08:01 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,802 posts, read 6,247,578 times
Reputation: 5041
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
#1 You were "warming to my point of view," because it is 100% factual and there is no legitimate argument against it.


-Obama clearly said he would meet with any dictator without preconditions.

-Republicans were mostly criticizing Obama for meeting a dictator without preconditions.

-Your video from "Now This News" even included multiple phere the Republicans criticizing Obama were focused on Obama not having preconditions.

-Trump said he would meet North Korea if there were preconditions met.

-What Trump said he would do and what Obama said he would do (but didn't) are not the same thing and there is no honest way to say it is.



#2 I didn't say that you had TDS. Are you honestly saying that "Now This News" is an even keeled broker on Trump? The video you posted is BS...did they do a poor job thinking or did they intend to lie? You don't think some people will look at the points in #1 and then still insist and repeat that there is a major hypocrisy in blaming Obama for having no preconditions, but praising Trump for having preconditions?

You kind of are doing that too...you are "warming" to my facts presented, chose not to attempt to intellectually challenge it, but then won't accept it, because I pointed out that those who hate Trump will ignore the facts. Ahem....
I don't agree with the whole preconditions angle at all. I was just starting to see how it made sense to you and that seemed reasonable. I know you didn't say I had TDS but when someone posts in that manner I can see they are not sincere in having a mutually respectful conversation.
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