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Old 03-18-2018, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,143 posts, read 10,703,406 times
Reputation: 9799

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
No, but the murder rate would decrease significantly - as in jaw dropping change. More guns = more death. It's quite simple.
Only to those who are willing to remain ignorant of facts.

 
Old 03-18-2018, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,347,969 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
No, but the murder rate would decrease significantly - as in jaw dropping change. More guns = more death. It's quite simple.
Which is why cities with tight gun laws like Chicago and D.C. have very few gun deaths, right?
 
Old 03-18-2018, 07:33 PM
 
5,913 posts, read 3,183,102 times
Reputation: 4397
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
Only to those who are willing to remain ignorant of facts.
Here is a video that explains the problem. https://www.vox.com/2015/10/3/944441...states-america
 
Old 03-18-2018, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Asia
2,768 posts, read 1,581,495 times
Reputation: 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Everyone in a well-regulated militia should be allowed to have a gun.
Another who does not know the definition of militia or well-regulated.



10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
 
Old 03-18-2018, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,164 posts, read 19,170,135 times
Reputation: 14873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
The people of Florida have decided to give up an essential liberty in order to gain a little temporary safety.

A guy who acts weird a lot, but has never committed a crime in Florida, has had his guns taken away by the government, and has been forbidden to buy guns or ammo.

He is pretty clearly a whacko. This is one of the exceptions listed in the 2nd amendment, which reads: "A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed unless the person is clearly a whacko. Only then is it OK for the government to confiscate his guns and forbid him to buy more."

Thank God the people of Florida have found government officials they can trust to never abuse their authority, and who will never (followed by future generation of govt officials too) make an announcement like, "People who voted for Trump are clearly insane, so under Florida's new law we can arrest all Republicans and take away whatever guns they have".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Police seize first firearms under Florida's new gun-control laws - Orlando Sentinel

Police seize first firearms under Florida's new gun-control laws

Paula McMahon
Sun Sentinel

A Broward County judge on Friday issued the state’s first order temporarily removing guns from a person under Florida’s new gun-control laws.

Four firearms and 267 rounds of ammunition were ordered removed from a 56-year-old Lighthouse Point man who was determined to be a potential risk to himself or others.

The guns and ammunition have been temporarily removed from the man under the state’s new “risk protection” law, which is also sometimes called “red flag” legislation, Lighthouse Point City Attorney Michael Cirullo confirmed.

The man was also taken to a hospital for involuntary psychiatric treatment under the state’s Baker Act. But the civil ruling removing his access to guns and ammunition was granted under the new legislation — which permits confiscating guns from people who have not been committed but are deemed a potential risk to themselves or others, according to the order signed by Broward’s Chief Judge Jack Tuter.

The man is also prohibited from trying to purchase or obtain guns or ammunition from any source.

The man told officers he “was being targeted and burglarized by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and a neighbor who lives in [his] building,” the judge wrote in his order. “[He] could not describe the neighbor but stated that the neighbor [can] ‘shape shift, he can change heights and I’m not sure where he comes from’ and ‘to be honest, he looks like Osama Bin Laden.’”

He also told officers that he had to turn off the electrical breakers because “they are electrocuting me through my legs.”
Everybody's been hollering "It's not the guns, it's Mental Health."

Don't complain when Florida tries to address the problem using that criteria. Good on Florida.
 
Old 03-18-2018, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,347,969 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Everybody's been hollering "It's not the guns, it's Mental Health."

Don't complain when Florida tries to address the problem using that criteria. Good on Florida.
It's not guns or mental health.

What do I win?
 
Old 03-19-2018, 06:16 AM
 
764 posts, read 234,866 times
Reputation: 231
So now i see a possible problem here........ As one poster has already stated, when you are Baker Acted in Florida you are confined under observation for 72 hours at which time you are deemed to be a danger or not to be a danger. If this individual is released then he must have his firearms returned to him by law. Who wants to be responsible for his future actions? I fear that anyone who is ever Baker Acted will lose their 2nd amendment rights whether warranted or not due to the fear of "what if?". If he is not released then what happens? (serious question) Who is responsible and for how long? Who pays the bill? I think this will get complicated. This individual is clearly disturbed and I believe will deservedly lose his firearms, but it does raise questions.
 
Old 03-19-2018, 06:25 AM
 
58,958 posts, read 27,261,820 times
Reputation: 14265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
The people of Florida have decided to give up an essential liberty in order to gain a little temporary safety.

A guy who acts weird a lot, but has never committed a crime in Florida, has had his guns taken away by the government, and has been forbidden to buy guns or ammo.

He is pretty clearly a whacko. This is one of the exceptions listed in the 2nd amendment, which reads: "A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed unless the person is clearly a whacko. Only then is it OK for the government to confiscate his guns and forbid him to buy more."

Thank God the people of Florida have found government officials they can trust to never abuse their authority, and who will never (followed by future generation of govt officials too) make an announcement like, "People who voted for Trump are clearly insane, so under Florida's new law we can arrest all Republicans and take away whatever guns they have".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Police seize first firearms under Florida's new gun-control laws - Orlando Sentinel

Police seize first firearms under Florida's new gun-control laws

Paula McMahon
Sun Sentinel

A Broward County judge on Friday issued the state’s first order temporarily removing guns from a person under Florida’s new gun-control laws.

Four firearms and 267 rounds of ammunition were ordered removed from a 56-year-old Lighthouse Point man who was determined to be a potential risk to himself or others.

The guns and ammunition have been temporarily removed from the man under the state’s new “risk protection” law, which is also sometimes called “red flag” legislation, Lighthouse Point City Attorney Michael Cirullo confirmed.

The man was also taken to a hospital for involuntary psychiatric treatment under the state’s Baker Act. But the civil ruling removing his access to guns and ammunition was granted under the new legislation — which permits confiscating guns from people who have not been committed but are deemed a potential risk to themselves or others, according to the order signed by Broward’s Chief Judge Jack Tuter.

The man is also prohibited from trying to purchase or obtain guns or ammunition from any source.

The man told officers he “was being targeted and burglarized by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and a neighbor who lives in [his] building,” the judge wrote in his order. “[He] could not describe the neighbor but stated that the neighbor [can] ‘shape shift, he can change heights and I’m not sure where he comes from’ and ‘to be honest, he looks like Osama Bin Laden.’”

He also told officers that he had to turn off the electrical breakers because “they are electrocuting me through my legs.”
I fully support the 2nd amendment but, did notice it took you a lot of typing and posting BEFORE getting, to me, an important part, " temporarily removing guns"

IF he is found to be "sane" he will get them back. if NOT then he won't.

Based on what YOU POSTED about him, I do NOT think he WILL get them back.

Do YOU think he should?
 
Old 03-19-2018, 06:28 AM
 
58,958 posts, read 27,261,820 times
Reputation: 14265
Quote:
Originally Posted by architech100 View Post
I dont understand the thread from a Californian, California has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation?

California has has no laws in its Constitution the guarantees an individual rights to bear arms, semiautomatics cant be sold in California. California doesn't really allow concealed carry permits in most of the state

Its not a state for people who love guns

"Its not a state for people who love guns "

I DON'T THINK "LOVE" has anything to do with it and should NOT be assumed and made as an insult.
 
Old 03-19-2018, 07:42 AM
 
13,929 posts, read 5,614,791 times
Reputation: 8596
SB 7026 violates every rule we have for due process, innocent until proven guilty, confiscation of property, rights in criminal/civil court, etc...all in an effort to violate the 2nd Amendment.

Nice.

Nothing like some knee jerk hysteria to create permanent abject tyranny in a futile effort to make us all safer from human nature.

My favorite parts of the "risk protection order", in no particular order
  • at no point does the "respondent" get to defend themselves with all their rights under the 5-7th amendments prior to the order being issued. Literally, they can have their rights taken away before even being notified that someone is petitioning for same. (read lines 948-1049 of PDF, chilling)
  • when the respondent does get to challenge (after they've been told they were found guilty), they have to prove their innocence. The law actually says they bear the burden of proof, not the state.
  • The initial order and the extensions thereof are not based on jury (violation of 6th/7th) decisions, but single judge being petitioned by law enforcement.
  • List of what constitutes grounds for the order actually includes: "(13) Evidence of recent acquisition of firearms or ammunition by the respondent" (lines 891-892 of PDF version) So just buying a weapon and/or ammunition is sufficient evidence that a person poses a risk such that they should lose their natural individual rights.
That freaking bill is some seriously chilling, disturbing, frightening tyranny all nice and codified. Simply buying a weapon and/or ammo is sufficient case for a temporary ex parte "risk protection" order to be issued, which means you lose your 2A rights without any protection whatsoever from the 4th-7th Amendments...because you purchased a weapon. They include that at least twice - simply buying a weapon is sufficient evidence of posing a risk such that a court (not a jury) can decide you pose a risk, and it is on you to convince that court that you do not.

It literally violates every individual protection our justice system is supposed to have, in favor of tyranny.

And so it begins....
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