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Old 04-04-2018, 05:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli34 View Post
More Guns Do Not Stop More Crimes, Evidence Shows

“about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes: murders, rapes, and others. Far less research shows that guns help.”

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...vidence-shows/
I'll remind you of that the next time the left claims, "If it only save ONE LIFE it is worth it"!

And the next time someone use a a gun to defend themselves or stop a crime against them like these

https://www.americanrifleman.org/the-armed-citizen

"A Houston woman who woke up and saw a strange man standing in her bedroom early Jan. 1 didn’t think he was there to wish her a Happy New Year. She grabbed the handgun she keeps by her bed for defensive purposes. When the meddler stepped toward her as she aimed the gun, she fired. The police did not charge the resident of the home. (chron.com, Houston, TX, 1/2/18)"

"A young man was on his way to work one morning when a thug, who was armed with a gun, tried to steal his vehicle. In response, the would-be victim, who has a valid concealed-carry license, produced his own firearm and shot and killed the carjacker. It turned out that the armed miscreant had a criminal history. The armed citizen was not charged, as the district attorney stated he “lawfully acted in self-defense.” (Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Milwaukee, WI, 3/20/18)'

How many innocent people being killed is acceptable to you?
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Old 04-04-2018, 05:44 AM
 
10,233 posts, read 6,317,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
I just don't understand their logic. Women, and the elderly are often preyed upon more by criminals as typically they are weaker physically. Why would you want to deny someone more at risk at least a chance to successfully defend themselves against attackers?

I live in a nice area that is pretty affluent with very low crime. Yet, not long ago there was a home invasion of an elderly couple by multiple attackers. They broke down the door, beat both people to near death, took what they could, and left them for dead. They were found a few days later, near death, by a concerned relative. They did not have a firearm to protect themselves, so were totally at the criminal's mercy.
Here's one that made the Naples, Florida, news a few years ago. An elderly couple was having a BBQ and Pool Party with their neighbors outside on their Lanai. With all the talking, laughing, music on, and sliding glass doors to inside closed, they did not hear robbers break in.

They were all tied up, beaten, and robbed. Now if they had a gun in the house? Well, they DID, but it was inside the house in their bedroom nightstand. The robbers got their gun long before they ever could get to it.

Morale? Keep your gun on your person wherever you go inside or outside your own home? Swimming in your pool too? Something like this would never make an NRA article, but the very "Liberal" Naples News reported it.
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Old 04-04-2018, 05:46 AM
 
59,040 posts, read 27,306,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Yes, you see gun owners are just all Rambos who want to shoot people. It doesn't matter that even a legal shooting in your own home can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees, and court costs should a case be brought against you. Yeah, that's something everyone wants, right? Not to mention the moral, and ethical feelings most would have no matter what, and for the rest of their lives.
They'd rather the innocent person be DEAD, it seems.
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Old 04-04-2018, 05:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Yet the gun lobby has prevented the CDC from studying gun violence, been ongoing for decades.
They don't want a discussion on gun violence, just a few anecdotes to make their case.

And that ban (which I do find odd) was lifted in 1996. This study is 5 years old , but I'd be willing to bet the same results would happen today. What more is actually needed before the left finally understands our violence issues aren't caused by the firearms ?


CDC Gun Research Backfires on Obama - Guns & Ammo


https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1#x
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:05 AM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
6,354 posts, read 3,653,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
The left seems to leave all of this out. Been going on for years
Its the right that leaves out gun facts, the right that refuses to have a honest conversation about guns, and the right that threatens to turn America into a nation with European-like gun laws.

The liberal state of Vermont allows 16 year olds to carry concealed and loaded handguns without a permit, while the republicans say liberals are anti-gunners.
https://www.usacarry.com/vermont_con...formation.html

And after the Newton school shooting 189 million Americans got tougher gun laws on the state level, and republicans don't speak of this or have a plan to stop this from further happening.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics...after-newtown/

And today less than 25% of Americans personally own a gun, and the rate of gun ownership has been falling for decades. In a country that votes how does the future of gun rights look? But republicans never speak of America's gun ownership rates or future ownership rates.
https://qz.com/518477/charted-this-i...tional-policy/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ade4cdf9b404

The reason Washington republicans ignore the above facts, take no steps to stop stricter gun laws on the state level, and ignore gun ownership statistics is because the republicans political campaigns are financed by large corporations. The republican politicians are in Washington to get CEO tax cuts, corporate tax cuts, and corporate deregulation, not to protect gun rights. And the republican corporate machine uses guns as a political tool to get votes.


The thing republican voters don't realize is the most important part of owning guns is being a responsible gun owner. Like keeping your guns out of the reach of children, teaching people proper safety rules before allowing them to shoot your guns, and not selling your guns to criminals, the mentally ill, or terrorists. But Washington republicans do not follow the rules of responsible gun owners, and Washington republicans even oppose laws to stop the severely mentally ill and terrorists from buying guns.
House GOP Blocks Measure to Keep Guns from Mentally Ill
GOP blocks bill to stop terrorists from buying guns | MSNBC

And since republicans refuse to pass the regulations of responsible gun owners on the federal level states are forced to do it themselves. And this gives states the opportunity to head toward European-like gun laws. But Washington republicans love Americans getting tougher gun laws on the state level, because then republicans get the fuel to say "the liberals want to grab your guns."


Instead of simply saying the corporate soundbite of "the liberals want to grab your guns", why not have a conversation about how to give all of America gun laws like the liberal state of Vermont, and then talk about what federal gun regulations we should have as responsible gun owners?

But having the above conversation won't win republicans elections to pass their corporate agenda, so republicans won't have that conversation.

Last edited by chad3; 04-04-2018 at 06:31 AM..
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:08 AM
 
29,483 posts, read 14,650,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramer68 View Post
Do they really want to ban all guns? All I've seen when it comes to bans is that some on the left want to ban certain types of guns but few, if any, want to ban all guns.

The push is for banning semi autos, which make up 80% of the firearms in circulation.
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:09 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,820 posts, read 12,024,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea View Post
I think if criminals didn't have that nagging fear that someone might be armed they would be breaking into homes far more often or robbing them more on the street and in businesses.
And there's always the extra standing army the US could field in case of invasion... the citizenry.
This is a joke right? lol
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:10 AM
 
59,040 posts, read 27,306,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Well the rest of the free and civilized world isn't doing too bad, but as per your example; how many of these situations does one need to read about before concluding it's already too late to prevent terrible loss:

https://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/25/u...d-america.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...enisha_McBride

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...QyL/story.html

Firearms and chickenchits afraid of their own shadows do not mix. A nation full of fearful people should not have access to guns. It's shaping up as anyone could have predicted a hundred years ago.
"Well the rest of the free and civilized world isn't doing too bad,"

Then let's apply THEIR LAWS and punishments.

You CANNOT cherry pick how different countries handle crime to suit your agenda.

It is ALL or nothing.

Do you want to do away with requiring a search warrant?

I suggest you look up Japan's sentencing of committed crimes.

"The crime rate in Japan seems incredibly low, but at the talk this May 10th (2012) Richard and Jake politely disagreed on what the reasons are for Japan’s low crime rate and the competence of the Japanese police. These are some highlights of the talk."

“about 99% of those are criminally convicted,"

"The true reason for Japan’s low crime rate, according to Mr. Parry, is not thanks to the law enforcement agencies but thanks to the Japanese people who are respectful of one another and non-violent, “not because of, but despite the frequently disgraceful performance of the Japanese police,” he explained."

Crime and Punishment in Japan : Japan Subculture Research Center

"Arrest in Japan usually involves a lengthy stay in police detention. If you are detained, even for minor offences such as petty theft or possession of very small quantities of illegal drugs, you may be held in detention for an extended period during the investigation and legal process. If you are detained by police for questioning, the initial interview may last several hours."

https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/advi...nal-law-system

7. You are Guilty until proven Innocent

6. You have very few rights

5. You will be heavily/aggressively interrogated



4. Your lawyer is a Moron/Liar

Defense attorneys everywhere have a very bad reputation and this is not so different in Japan. When a lawyer is finally contacted and you are allowed to meet them, do not expect much.


Date: January 2, 2011Author: gaijinass 172 Comments






[LEFT][COLOR=#]24 Votes[/color][/LEFT]


See also our Brutal Realities of Prison in Japan.

Disclaimer: No legal counsel have been consulted in the production of this article and this should not be considered legal advice. Instead it is a look at the realities involving arrest, interrogation and confinement in Japan regardless of ones guilt or innocence.
Introduction
Being arrested is not too terribly different from being captured by an enemy force in a military engagement and by that I mean you’re ****ed.
This becomes exponentially more true when one is arrested in a foreign country and even more so when that country’s laws are dramatically different from those of your home country.
Japan is a highly advanced nation with a powerful economy and a fair amount of “western” ideals and culture. That having been said, the criminal justice system in Japan is uniquely Japanese and varies considerably from anything one has likely encountered in any other place. The following are realities you need to be prepared for if you are arrested in Japan….
7. You are Guilty until proven Innocent


In Japan if you’re arrested, it’s seen by the police and the prosecutor and even by society at large as a sign of your guilt.
Circular logic anyone?
This is due largely to the existence of Japan’s supremely high conviction rate, 99 percent, and a blind trust and commitment to the institutions wielding power.
After all, how could anyone ever get arrested unless they were guilty, right?
Subsequently, if you claim innocence you will immediately receive harsher treatment both during interrogation, court proceedings and particularly in sentencing. A confession of guilt is not only considered the king of all evidence (shoko no o) in Japanese courts but is also thought to be a clear sign of remorse. This remorse is considered by the judge as an indicator of how likely the arrested individual is to actually rehabilitate and smoothly re-enter society.Clearly not arrested in Japan.
What you can do:

Relax. You have been arrested and initially all the police will want from you is information. Slow down. Be confused. Be disoriented, at least appear to be. Consider speaking only English, avoid using Japanese. Ask about seeing someone from your Embassy. Do not sign anything.
6. You have very few rights

Everything that occurs from the moment you first meet the police to conviction in court is designed to ensure that the state wins and you lose. Your “rights” as they are conventionally accepted in the west simply are not a high priority. A good example here is the lack of an attorney during the lengthy interrogation periods with police.
You can be detained for questioning for up to 48 hours, then the prosecutor can grant the police a 10 day detention permission which can and will be (almost without exception) extended for up to 21 days, with a possible two-day extension after this .
This means you can be held for up to 23 days in almost all cases without being charged with any crime.
It cannot be expressed enough in this article or by the police who will interrogate you how critical this initial 24-48 hour period is. When you are arrested it will be a shocking experience. The police will likely handcuff you, search you and confiscate your belongings. You will then be taken to a police station and the initial interrogations will begin.
What you can do:

Again-Relax. Looking distressed and confused for everyone else is fine but inside you need to control yourself, slow things down and make logical decisions. You can just assume that you will be detained for the full 23 days. You will not get bail. Accept this and begin thinking about the long-term. Who can you contact that you trust and can responsibly help you? Nobody within the institutions holding you are interested in your well-being, you have to organize a support network and hopefully your friends or family in the country can help.
5. You will be heavily/aggressively interrogated

Your interrogation will begin as soon as you are in police custody. Likely, this will begin in the van or car while you are being transported to the station and will continue in a cramped little room at the station later. This initial interrogation will last late into the night and will involve several different officers, if resources allow. You will most likely get to sleep an hour or so before you have to wake up and your second round of interrogation will begin that morning after a cold rice and boiled egg breakfast. Expect this to go all day and into the next night.
Hope you brought your appetite! At this point, the police are trying to maximize your shock and discomfort and will utilize these factors in getting you to sign an initial statement that will be as close to a confession as they can possibly make it. They will make you promises and assurances that you can go home once they have “cleared everything up” and they “fully understand the case”. These are lies, a tactic to trick you and nothing else. This document will be what allows the prosecutor to issue the initial detention permission. However, the act of you NOT signing it can be given as suspicion to hold you further.
Catch 22: Enjoy.
Just like military interrogation, expect this initial phase to be very loud, late into the night and prepare to be bullied and even physically coerced. A common tactic which they can easily get away with, is grabbing your shirt collar and shaking you whilst screaming in your face. It leaves no marks, does not cause pain but it is an excellent shock technique. It lets you know they are in control and hints at the possibility of more serious physical measures yet to come. This can be very unpleasant for someone who has never dealt with the combination of physical and psychological intimidation before. Since Japanese interrogations are conducted in cramped, bare windowless rooms and are not video taped, these physical techniques are completely deniable.
What you can do:

Accept that you are going to be heavily interrogated, often for up to 12 hours per day or even more if your case is very serious, first by a group of police, then by a pair of officers dedicated to your case that play good cop/bad cop and then by the prosecutor. All will employ varying systems and techniques to try to get into your mind and illicit a confession to their satisfaction, true or not.
They are going to use various methods to make you talk and to gain your trust and compliance. They do not care about the details, what they want is simply to get you talking to them and to form a kind of relationship based on your compliance with their demands for information.
Remember, every time you comply with their demands you are giving away a little piece of control.
You will find that as the interrogations go on and you provide information, they will make small allowances in your favor. A coffee. Moving the interrogation to a larger room with a big window. Removing your hand cuffs. Flattering you. This is all part of the system to make you comply and support them.
You should be a very neutral man. You are not fighting them, but you are not passively obeying all commands. Always look miserable, sick and tired but in your mind you have to maintain a strong position and realize one way or another this will all end.
Whether you are innocent and being falsely accused, lying to protect a friend or loved one, or simply a criminal trying to get off (My advice is to not get on the wrong side of the law anywhere, period), you have to stay mentally sharp in these situations because the people questioning you are professionals.
Finally and this is critical, avoid showing anyone how much Japanese you speak, read or write. Insist on an interpreter. This slows down proceedings and the police officer doing the interpreting is more easily engaged as a friendly asset than the other two cops building a case against you. If you succeed in building rapport with the police interpreter, they can even subconsciously begin defending you and deflecting overtly aggressive questions from the other officers interrogating you by softening the translations and even giving you subliminal gestures and ques regarding what you should and should not say.

4. Your lawyer is a Moron/Liar


Defense attorneys everywhere have a very bad reputation and this is not so different in Japan. When a lawyer is finally contacted and you are allowed to meet them, do not expect much.

3. Your Embassy cannot Help you


2. Japan’s love of rules and order extends to confinement accommodations

The conditions of confinement both at the police stations and at the regional detention centers are designed to foster two reactions: Control and Cooperation.

1. Money Talks

Most cases in Japan, both civil and criminal and the corresponding punishments are largely effected by paying some sort of restitution or fine.
A relatively simple assault charge, a fist fight with some broken noses in a commercial establishment, can avoid prosecution by offering a payment to the victim, perhaps 10,000 US or 1,000,000 million yen and a formal, written apology.
More extreme situations involving larger amounts lost to theft or a more severe beating/attacks will also require a monetary payment and apologies to avoid a prison sentence, or a reduced sentence. Money here says much more than it does in the western criminal justice system"

https://gaijinass.com/2011/01/02/7-b...rest-in-japan/
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:13 AM
 
59,040 posts, read 27,306,837 times
Reputation: 14281
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee View Post
To be sure I have never argued against the right to keep a rifle or shotgun in the home. However I also dont think its appropriate for private citizens to walk around armed.
Talk the criminals into waiting. What crimes are we talking about? Where do you live? I dont walk around with overwhelming fear of being a vicrim of a violent crime. Do you?
"I also dont think its appropriate for private citizens to walk around armed."

Depends on where you live and go.

No difference then having life, car, homeowner's and health insurance.

You must live on base because San Diego has a pretty HIGH crime rate.

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not ok

an Diego Crime Data



Crime Index

25

(100 is safest)
Safer than 25% of U.S. Cities


San Diego Annual Crimes


Violent Property Total Number of Crimes
5,409
29,734
35,143
Crime Rate
(per 1,000 residents)
3.85
21.14
24.98

Last edited by Yac; 04-06-2018 at 06:25 AM..
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:23 AM
 
29,483 posts, read 14,650,004 times
Reputation: 14448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
What a bunch of rubbish.
But should come as no surprise with WaPo promoting Pew (liberal think tank) and a CBS/NYT poll

One of the new narratives of the leftists is that most guns are owned by small groups of individuals, and the average person does not own a gun. As much as some people love guns for shooting, hunting, collecting and self defense, most of the 100+ million are not being acquired by only 5% (or whatever kooky figure they want to proffer) of the populace.

I completely agree. These people that post links like that don't see in reality what is happening. They don't visit the ranges, the stores, the gun shows. They don't try to purchase things and find that they are on 3 month back orders. They haven't helped friends that were not owners , purchase their first hand gun and rifle.
They do have a link to back up their claims though...
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