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Old 04-05-2018, 12:48 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,005 posts, read 41,043,815 times
Reputation: 44944

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Stephon should have realized that in the dark anything in his hand could be mistaken for a gun. An officer who is concerned that someone he is chasing might be armed may see what he is expecting to see. The cell phone is interpreted to be a gun.


An exercise for you. Watch the video. It's short and cute. Then read the spoiler.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=nHlJODYBLKs

Spoiler
Did you see the goat, or did all the animals in the video look like dogs to you?

By the way, all the dogs were rescues, all got adopted, and the whole video was done in one take.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
1,081 posts, read 545,417 times
Reputation: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
No one ordered him to stop.
There's no video showing him vandalizing anything and I'm not sure what items were found that could put him at the scene of the vandalism. I'm not saying he didn't commit a crime but I don't see any evidence to prove that he did.
He was not running from anyone when the cops entered the yard, he was somewhere near the rear of his grandmother's house. No cop should even consider shooting someone just because they are running. When I was a kid the cops rolled up on a bunch of us kids partying, we all ran - no one pursued us and shot at us even though we were guilty of underage drinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I had seen that before but I watched it again, I am not sure what I was supposed to see there that conflicts with anything I have said.
The helicopter deputy says "He just broke a window" right before Stephon jumps over the fence into his grandmother's backyard.

The cops first encounter Stephon in the DRIVEWAY where Stephon is looking into the SUV and order him to show them his hands at which point Stephon runs to the back yard. They order him to STOP twice. The police pursue Stephon into the back yard. The helicopter deputy says that Stephon is running towards the field to the south (meaning they expect him to hop the fence again and continue south.) The officers then round the corner only to see that Stephon has turned back toward them (he's next to the picnic table at this point.) Due to the overhang and the helicopter's position, the helicopter deputy would have lost site of him after Stephon ran across the back yard (to the south.) The officers see Stephon facing them and they jump back behind cover of the corner.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 26,029,946 times
Reputation: 33870
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
That crime in itself does not warrant it, but the fleeing from police does and will most of the time solicit such response. Yes, I also was an LEO.
So in the agency where you worked you could use lethal force against a person who is suspected of committing a misdemeanor simply because they fled? What if it was someone who stole a 12 pack of beer from 7-11 and is running down the street with it?

One thing I'm curious about is why the helicopter didn't try to communicate with the suspect? I live in Sac County and the S.O helicopter is buzzing around here several times a week and even though they aren't near my home I can hear them giving very specific instructions to suspects.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 26,029,946 times
Reputation: 33870
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlEsc View Post
The helicopter deputy says "He just broke a window" right before Stephon jumps over the fence into his grandmother's backyard.

The cops first encounter Stephon in the DRIVEWAY where Stephon is looking into the SUV and order him to show them his hands at which point Stephon runs to the back yard. They order him to STOP twice. The police pursue Stephon into the back yard. The helicopter deputy says that Stephon is running towards the field to the south (meaning they expect him to hop the fence again and continue south.) The officers then round the corner only to see that Stephon has turned back toward them (he's next to the picnic table at this point.) Due to the overhang and the helicopter's position, the helicopter deputy would have lost site of him after Stephon ran across the back yard (to the south.) The officers see Stephon facing them and they jump back behind cover of the corner.


That's your interpretation and much of it is based upon speculation.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 26,029,946 times
Reputation: 33870
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
fixed that for you
Defending themselves from an iphone
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:09 AM
 
26,315 posts, read 14,916,050 times
Reputation: 14493
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
There still does not appear to be any evidence that he in fact vandalized anything.
It sounds like there is.


Quote:
Police said the helicopter personnel observed that the suspect had picked up a "toolbar" and broken a window to a residence. The helicopter team observed the man running and looking into another car, police said. The helicopter then guided officers to the man's location in the backyard of a home.

The camera from the helicopter showed a man running through a backyard and hopping a fence into another yard. The aerial footage captured the moment when two officers began heading toward him.

Officers arrived at the front yard and gave the man commands to stop and show his hands, according to police. The man immediately fled to the backyard, police said, and they pursued him.

At that point, the man "turned and advanced toward the officers while holding an object" extended in front of him, according to police.

"The officers believed the suspect was pointing a firearm at them. Fearing for their safety, the officers fired their duty weapons, striking the suspect multiple times," the police news release states.

The body camera footage is dark and shaky. The helicopter pivots, blocking the aerial view of Clark and the two police officers in the brief seconds leading up to gunfire.
The helicopter in the air had spotted him before the police officers on the ground.

It looks like the helicopter video catches him smashing a window to a house and peering into cars...it then has him on camera disobeying the police arriving on the ground by fleeing to a backyard where the helicopter pivots away right as the gunfire starts.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
1,081 posts, read 545,417 times
Reputation: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
[/b]

That's your interpretation and much of it is based upon speculation.
It's in the video...

Are you being purposely obtuse?
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:21 AM
 
26,315 posts, read 14,916,050 times
Reputation: 14493
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
So in the agency where you worked you could use lethal force against a person who is suspected of committing a misdemeanor simply because they fled? What if it was someone who stole a 12 pack of beer from 7-11 and is running down the street with it?
Not who you were talking to, but....

That is a reasonable position and there is merit to it.

However, this guy, through his own actions, put the police in a tough position.

He chose to smash a house window. Police have to wonder if he is armed and dangerous and would break and enter a home. Police know he has done other acts of vandalism. Police know that he has refused their orders and ran. It is night and they can't see well. They don't know if he is armed and he has something in his hand. He was running one way, then doubled back at the cops - the cops will see this as confrontational as he is not following their orders.

What would be a good police policy in your mind? Don't shoot until fired upon, with a few exceptions?


I know his family was describing him as a great guy, but he did have a history of bad choices (or else he wouldn't have been in jail most likely) and he made a series of bad choices that night that put the cops in a tough position.
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Old 04-05-2018, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,518,206 times
Reputation: 29384
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1 View Post
This is perfect, as it overtly describes how the Left misunderstands the legal role of the police officer.

First, let's get this "due process" garbage out of the way. Yes, due process is essential (except when #metoo, amirite?). However, there is no "due process" until you peacefully surrender. When you are a danger to police officers and the community, you will be subdued by any means necessary. See my recent previous posts for discussions of the nuances of what happens when you choose to run from the police. Stop abusing legal language like you are a prison convict.

Yes, the precise legal role of the cop is most equivalent to "street judge". That's what a cop is. He is first a witness who makes judgements as to who is and is no breaking the law. Later, that cops judgement may get confirmed or rejected by a courtroom judge. Often, though, the system merely enforces the cops judgement in regard to the situation via levying a fine or some other lighter penalty.

A cop does "play" executioner. That's why cops carry guns. Or did you forget? When a cop perceives a danger to themselves or others that will only be stopped with lethal force, then they are exactly executioners. Later, whether or not this use of lethal force was justified will be decided by a higher "street judge", which is usually the district attorney. If the DA decides that the cop needs to go before a courtroom judge o either validate or invalidate his srteet judge choice of lethal force, then that will occur. If the DA decides that the cop was justified, then it will not occur.

The Left seems to think that cops are civilians with the same legal standing. They absolutely are not and could not be if you wish to keep the legal system that keeps us from descending into anarchy.

I'm a moderate Democrat but I know bull ****e when I smell it, and this situation is utter b.s.

He was shot in the back. Were they afraid he was holding a gun backwards over his head ready to shoot?

Gimme a break. There's a reason they cut the audio. Stop and think.

As for the rest of your post - thank God we live in a country where the laws don't mean what you think they do and police aren't tasked with what you think they are. What a dope.
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Old 04-05-2018, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,518,206 times
Reputation: 29384
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
That crime in itself does not warrant it, but the fleeing from police does and will most of the time solicit such response. Yes, I also was an LEO.

When he was standing in his grandmothers yard with his hands over his head, was he fleeing police?

Or do they get to shoot him once he stops.....just because?
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