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Old 04-05-2018, 02:09 PM
 
17,277 posts, read 11,132,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
There is nothing inherently wrong with taking life though. We don't consider murder wrong because it's taking life. We consider murder wrong because it's taking life from people who don't want their lives taken. We can't say a fetus doesn't want it's life taken, because it's not aware enough to make that decision. It just kind of naturally lives, whether it wants to or not. Adults are the only people capable of making sensible decisions about whether or not an unborn fetus should live. Maybe they're adults in the government, or doctors, or parents, but it's going to be adults. In every single instance, adults are either forcing the fetus to live without its consent (which could be a good or bad thing) or forcing the fetus not to live without its consent (which could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the circumstances).
Everything you said also applies to a new born and infant to toddler stage. They aren't aware of death either and they aren't able to make that decision. They just live and are dependent on others to keep them alive. So your argument is very lame at best.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,332,018 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Yeah, freedom to kill the unborn. I'm a male so I'd never need an abortion nor would I ever have one if I were a woman.
Oldglory thinks women should die giving birth if they have risky health problems. I'm sure glad I don't live anywhere you control.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:12 PM
 
62,599 posts, read 28,790,915 times
Reputation: 18428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
Oldglory thinks women should die giving birth if they have risky health problems. I'm sure glad I don't live anywhere you control.

Nope, in fact I have stated in this very forum that if a woman's life is in danger by giving birth then yes I would save the mother and abort the child. The fact is that most abortions don't occur because of that reason. Don't assume things about me and make statements that I never made and in fact said the opposite!


I have a relative that had a tubal pregnancy and her life was at risk and the baby wouldn't have survived anyway. She had an abortion and I had no problem with that.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,332,018 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Everything you said also applies to a new born and infant to toddler stage. They aren't aware of death either and they aren't able to make that decision. They just live and are dependent on others to keep them alive. So your argument is very lame at best.
It's true that everything I said also applies to born babies..but there are some differences between born babies and fetuses.

#1. From what I understand, fetuses are asleep most to all of the time.
#2. Fetal brains are less developed than born baby brains. I've heard that at least before the second trimester, that means they're quite unlikely to feel pain, although there's lots of unknowns when it comes to just what goes on in the mind of fetuses.
#3. Fetuses aren't born yet, so the mother hasn't had to go through the trauma of childbirth, which avoids that unpleasantness.
#4. Born babies can be adopted. Fetuses cannot yet. They're still part of the mother. Someone could make the argument that if someone hooked a person up to my kidneys against my will, I shouldn't be obligated to keep them connected to my kidneys even if that's the only way to keep them alive...because they're greatly affecting my life without my consent. Fetuses could be seen the same way.

There needs to be some point at which we're allowed to take a life before it's lived long for humanitarian reasons. I'm assuming that'll be most humane before it's born, when its mind is less developed. The only other choice is legalizing certain forms of infanticide...but for that to be okay you'd need to convince me that the baby will be less likely to experience trauma from infanticide than during earlier stages of development.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,332,018 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Nope, in fact I have stated in this very forum that if a woman's life is in danger by giving birth then yes I would save the mother and abort the child. The fact is that most abortions don't occur because of that reason. Don't assume things about me and make statements that I never made and in fact said the opposite!


I have a relative that had a tubal pregnancy and her life was at risk and the baby wouldn't have survived anyway. She had an abortion and I had no problem with that.
Well then you shouldn't have said you'd never get an abortion. Apparently you would get an abortion, in certain circumstances.

I'm still assuming you don't want people getting abortions even if it means their child will be born with anencephaly and will die shortly after birth though...because you have't specified otherwise yet.
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Old 04-05-2018, 02:33 PM
 
62,599 posts, read 28,790,915 times
Reputation: 18428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
Well then you shouldn't have said you'd never get an abortion. Apparently you would get an abortion, in certain circumstances.

I'm still assuming you don't want people getting abortions even if it means their child will be born with anencephaly and will die shortly after birth though...because you have't specified otherwise yet.

I thought that it was obvious I would have one if my life were in danger by my statement, duh. Stop assuming, if a child is not go make it or the mother's life is in jeopardy those are my exceptions for abortion. I already made that clear, do you just wan to argue?
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,332,018 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I thought that it was obvious I would have one if my life were in danger by my statement, duh. Stop assuming, if a child is not go make it or the mother's life is in jeopardy those are my exceptions for abortion. I already made that clear, do you just wan to argue?
"I'd never get an abortion" means "I'd never get an abortion. There's no reason for me to assume anything besides that...and I'll assume whatever I think makes the most sense. I don't read every post in most threads I read.

I'm also assuming you'd never get an abortion if your kid would survive, but would probably die before age five from Tay-Sachs disease, or experience pain throughout their life from sickle cell anemia, or if they had congenital heart defects of any non-fatal kind that would lead to lifelong problems, no matter what those problems are.

Last edited by Clintone; 04-07-2018 at 05:31 PM..
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:49 PM
 
Location: NC
5,129 posts, read 2,580,460 times
Reputation: 2398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
I don't read every post in most threads I read.

true for many posters around here.
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