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Old 04-02-2018, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
3,921 posts, read 9,131,897 times
Reputation: 1673

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I'm finishing up my college degree in civil engineering, and for the past few years, in addition to a combination of internships and tutoring gigs, I have a part-time job in the deli section of a supermarket.

The minimum wage for large NYC employers went from $9 in 2016 to $11 in 2017 to $13 in 2018 and is scheduled to go to $15 in 2019 (technically those increases all take/took place on New Year's Eve of the year before).

The workers in the store are unionized (UFCW Local 1500 and Local 342), which doesn't help much on the regular pay rate (basically, you receive an extra $0.25/hr above the minimum wage after you pass a 2 month probationary period, and then an extra $0.30/hr for every year of service, which basically ends up coming out as union dues anyway). But at the same time, overtime is after 8 hours/day rather than after 40 hours/week, and you get an hourly premium for working Sundays & holidays (after 1 year is a $2/hr premium and after 2 years is time-and-a-half).

As you would expect from a retail job, it's a mix of high school/college students, retirees, stay-at-home moms, people using it as a side job to a decent-paying full-time job, people using it as a way to get full-time hours (either try and work 35-40 hours at that store, or combine 2 part-time jobs), and then of course, the miserable ones who work part-time hours that one single job and live off welfare or off their parents.

From what I've seen, the store hasn't significantly reduced the amount of hours that employees are scheduled for each week (if it's not that busy, per union rules they can't force anybody to leave early, so they have to consider that in the budget). However, when the minimum wage rose to $11/hr, the difference I've seen is that if there's any call-outs, they'll think long and hard before filling them. When I first started, you could basically be assured that at any given time, the amount of people working behind the counter would match the number scheduled at that time. Nowadays, they could be 2-3 people short and they won't make any effort to call anybody in.

At $13/hr, what I've seen is that they're basically looking to "clean house" and get rid of the slackers. Things like the duration of breaks are being enforced according to the union contract. To be fair, they got rid of the biggest offenders first (people who would take 50-60 minute breaks as opposed to the 10-15 minutes they were allotted), but there's still an element of favoritism on who they crack down on, for whatever reason.

Also, on a side note, prices at the supermarket haven't really increased in response to the minimum wage increase. Also, very little in the way of automation.

Pay-wise, I noticed that when the cashier union (Local 1500) negotiated a new contract, they had a few give-backs. One of the things that was controversial was the Sunday premium pay. What ended up happening was that they stretched it out so that period to qualify was longer (for new-hires it went something like $2/hr premium -> $3/hr premium -> $4/hr premium -> time-and-a-half, but those who already had it were grandfathered in, and those who were already on the payroll had to wait 2.5 years instead of 2 years). I believe the deli union (Local 342) contract expired this year instead of last year, so I'm not sure what the provisions are going to be, but I'm sure they'll be similar.

Another thing I noticed while reading the Local 1500 contract is that those who started working before 1989 were grandfathered in to receive time-and-a-half for Saturday and double pay for Sundays & holidays. In that regard, it did make it that much easier to live off that type of job (basically, if you worked both weekends, you got an extra day of pay compared to now). There's one deli worker who has been there 23 years and he said back when he started, it only took 1 month to qualify for time-and-a-half instead of 2 years. So in that regard, if you hustled right, you could make a living (or at least, it was that much easier to) out of a retail job 20-30 years ago.

The thing that still never ceases to surprise me is that for $13/hr, some of the people who have this as their only job are still frequently absent from work. The larger issue is that yeah, raising the minimum wage will help those who are willing to work full-time, but quite frankly, there's still the lazy losers who don't want to work. For a higher minimum wage, employers should be able to find reliable help. I definitely support some type of work requirement to collect welfare, because it shouldn't be that you're able to work 20 hours a week at a basic job and have the rest of your expenses covered by the taxpayers (some of which include coworkers who are working the same 20 hour a week job on top of a regular full-time job).

A union representative came to the store a couple of months ago and mentioned that as part of the new contract, they wanted to negotiate a minimum 30 hour workweek with benefits for part-time workers, with exceptions for those who voluntarily wanted less because of another job or school. The issue of course, is that that comprises a good portion of the workers there. They already have full-time positions that offer 40 hours, so they might as well advocate for more of those positions. And out of the workers who are available to work 30+ hours, half of them call out once the schedule puts them over 20-25 hours, and the other half can usually figure out how to hustle the managers out of 30+ hours anyway.

As for me, that little bit of extra money might convince me to stay there a little longer after I graduate. Close to home, and I get to socialize a bit with the customers and coworkers that I like while I work (Civil engineering and construction is not exactly known for having tons of females in the field, though that's slowly changing). If there's little to no overtime at whatever job I get when I graduate, it's decent pocket money.

Feel free to comment.
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:29 PM
 
Location: 89434
6,658 posts, read 4,749,349 times
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More money in your pocket...

But then your rent goes up and so does everything else.
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,615,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevroqs View Post
More money in your pocket...

But then your rent goes up and so does everything else.
Rent goes up anyways, due to inflation and population increase, do better for wages to keep up with COL then for people to get continuously poorer every year
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:37 AM
 
3,044 posts, read 5,003,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkmatechamp13 View Post

The thing that still never ceases to surprise me is that for $13/hr, some of the people who have this as their only job are still frequently absent from work. The larger issue is that yeah, raising the minimum wage will help those who are willing to work full-time, but quite frankly, there's still the lazy losers who don't want to work. For a higher minimum wage, employers should be able to find reliable help.
This is one thing I've never understood from higher minimum wage proponents. The pool of candidates remains the same, no matter the minimum. If the pool is 100 people and 10 are habitual slackers, it'll be that way whether you raise the minimum to $15 or $20. Unless it overlaps the next segment up of workers (who will be getting a raise anyway if the minimum goes up), there is no change in workers.

The slackers don't care if they get fired. It's not like they have years of reputation built up in the industry that they'll lose and have to resort to lower pay. The next job will pay the same.
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:40 AM
 
5,179 posts, read 3,095,263 times
Reputation: 11056
Mandated minimum wage is akin to pushing on a rope. Many will exclaim "look, the rope is moving, it works!," and others will observe that nothing was accomplished in the overall scheme.
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
24,502 posts, read 17,245,671 times
Reputation: 35799
I can see the point of the company. When they are forced to pay more per hour they have to get more out of their workers.

I'm surprised they could get rid of the slackers so easily with a union involved. Years ago I worked with a union and if they had a bad guy they wanted to get rid of they had to let go everyone that was hired after him as if they were downsizing. The laid off workers would slowly be hired back once the bad guy was out.

More money for workers is a good thing but that extra money has to come from somewhere and usually it is not out of the owners pocket.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Sector 001
15,946 posts, read 12,293,021 times
Reputation: 16109
Raising the minimum wage for everyone could drive up the lowest end rent costs as a result. Depends on the supply and demand situation. In the end I do believe money trickles up better than it trickles down. Most wealthy people get wealthy because they don't blow their money on junk. In the end just use common sense in applying the wage and it's not the end of the world either way. A national wage of $15 doesn't make much sense because it will just drive niche stores in less populated areas out of business. Given as we already have a hard enough time attracting new businesses in my neck of the woods, it wouldn't really help things out at all. All you do making the minimum wage that high is allow the giants to survive.

It would be like telling landlords they can only charge such and such for rent. Says who? My piece of property I should be able to charge what I want, and specify I don't want your emotional support dog peeing on my carpet. Since I can't do this, I don't become a landlord. Too much legal BS these days.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,615,202 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnytang24 View Post
This is one thing I've never understood from higher minimum wage proponents. The pool of candidates remains the same, no matter the minimum. If the pool is 100 people and 10 are habitual slackers, it'll be that way whether you raise the minimum to $15 or $20. Unless it overlaps the next segment up of workers (who will be getting a raise anyway if the minimum goes up), there is no change in workers.

The slackers don't care if they get fired. It's not like they have years of reputation built up in the industry that they'll lose and have to resort to lower pay. The next job will pay the same.
The bolded is not always true, there are several instances of "wage compression" when minimum wage has been raised in states across the country in real life. Wage compression is when people who were making below the new minimum wage get the new minimum wage, while people who were already making the new minimum or were making above it get minimal or no increase in pay. It happened to my fiance a year ago, in 2016 our minimum was $8.05/hr and she was earning $10/hr. In Jan 2017, our minimum went up to $10/hr and she didn't get a raise at all.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:02 AM
 
45,585 posts, read 27,203,264 times
Reputation: 23898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
I can see the point of the company. When they are forced to pay more per hour they have to get more out of their workers.

I'm surprised they could get rid of the slackers so easily with a union involved. Years ago I worked with a union and if they had a bad guy they wanted to get rid of they had to let go everyone that was hired after him as if they were downsizing. The laid off workers would slowly be hired back once the bad guy was out.

More money for workers is a good thing but that extra money has to come from somewhere and usually it is not out of the owners pocket.
The bold is the key. The money has to come from somewhere to pay the extra wages.

Either prices increase, or the cost of operating the business must decrease which may result in job loss (or a combo of both options).

This is just simple math, and not a matter of opinion.

Thanks the the OP for his first hand testimony.

Last edited by DRob4JC; 04-03-2018 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:08 AM
 
13,694 posts, read 9,014,113 times
Reputation: 10416
A very interesting read, OP, for which I thank you.
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