Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Amen....I don't know I've had it almost 80 yrs and no HPV vaccine...and I ain't been a nun.
Ten years your junior. Haven't had even a Pap test, or a personal doctor, since my OB and was pregnant in 1984. Coming of age in the throws of Sex, Drugs, and Rock N Rock.
You and I have chosen different paths (me foodie for one), but in the end, it is pretty much the same. We do not blindly follow modern medicine.
Besides my lifetime experiences for my age, as you yourself have, I will give you what my adult daughters say about me. Why is Dad always sick and Mom isn't? She never goes to a doctor. Maybe because she doesn't believe she is, or WANT, to be sick. Dad just focuses on being sick, and how much medical treatment he can get.
I do not know what my views are called relative to Alternative Medicine, but I am sure it is probably part of it.
I respect your views. Given the responses on this thread, many other posters do as well. We are certainly not trying to tell other what to do, but PLEASE you medical professionals, RESPECT our rights and views as as adults.
You're missing the point as well, it was only an example. What ever happened to Ex-Lax or Milk of Magnesia? Not only that, what would cancer patients have done before opiods even existed? Obviously, they are not the miracle that modern medicine would have us believe they are, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are in. The last thing we need is more drugs. THAT is the point.
Some of them experienced agonizing pain. Now that is avoidable. I think THAT is the point.
No Suzy, I don’t care to control how people have sex. Education is key. People can choose to take whatever preventative measures that suit them, or not. You don’t however see commercials about how to prevent, beyond vaccine commercials because there’s no money to be made in eating healthy, not smoking or drinking alcohol, using condoms, being monagomous, etc. Not a whole lot of money in pap screenings either, although they are important and it would be nice to see them encouraged in ways that reach bigger markets because there is zero doubt about their effectiveness in preventing cervical cancer.
Actually, the number is more like 31,000 HPV associated cancers per year. Keep in mind once again that people who smoke, people who consume alcohol are at a MUCH higher risk of developing HPV associated cancer, as are people with HIV. Also keep in mind that those rates would drop further is we had 100% compliance with regular Pap smears. If HPV was the only factor involved in cancer and people were unable to clear it from their bodies via their own immune system, then 90% of the population would get cancer. That’s not the case. https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cases.htm
While there was a reasonable level of concern over HPV prior to the vaccine, there was not hysteria over it.
Your link is from data from 2009 to 2013. My link uses data from 2010 to 2014. Different time intervals were covered. Regardless, it is still tens of thousands of new cases per year. HPV associated cancers at sites other than the female cervix are not rare, which you claimed earlier.
Pap smears pick up cancers in early stages when they may be curable; they do not prevent them. Pap smears are not perfect, having both false positives and false negatives, and the evaluation of abnormal smears involves procedures that are painful, expensive, and have potential complications. I honestly cannot understand how you can cling to the idea that treating cervical abnormalities is better than preventing them in the first place.
Your Utopia in which everyone is monogamous, no one smokes or drinks alcohol, and no one has anal or oral sex is never going to happen.
No one says that HPV is the only factor in cancer, but for many cancers it is a necessary factor: No high risk HPV = no cancer, no matter what other risk factors you have.
There is no hysteria over HPV now. There is a safe, highly effective vaccine to prevent the majority of infections associated with cancer.
By the way, cervical HPV testing is replacing the Pap smear. In fact, women who have had the vaccine need fewer Pap smears, just to cover the possibility of acquiring one of the rarer strains that can cause cancer and are not covered by the vaccine.
"A recent review of the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine is has found that in the 10 years since its original release, the infection rate of HPV has been lowered by up to 90 percent in countries with high levels of immunisation."
In the US the drop is lower, thanks to the anti-vax folks:
"Another study from February this year showed in the US, the rates of HPV infection declined from 11.5 to 4.3 percent. That’s a 64 percent reduction, which is pretty incredible when you realise that only 37 percent of girls and 13 percent of boys between 13 and 17-years-old have received all their shots."
"'Observations from over the past 10 years are that the HPV vaccines, if delivered effectively to the majority of 10 to 12 year-old-girls in the developing world from today forward, should lead to the global elimination of new cervical and other HPV associated cancers by 2050,' said Frazer."
Wow: eradicate HPV associated cancers in the next 32 years! That would be incredible. It would involve American parents getting over the absolute glut of misinformation about the vaccine and giving it to their children, though.
Your thesis that the HPV vaccine was developed only to sell vaccine for an "invented" disease is false.
Ten years your junior. Haven't had even a Pap test, or a personal doctor, since my OB and was pregnant in 1984. Coming of age in the throws of Sex, Drugs, and Rock N Rock.
You and I have chosen different paths (me foodie for one), but in the end, it is pretty much the same. We do not blindly follow modern medicine.
Besides my lifetime experiences for my age, as you yourself have, I will give you what my adult daughters say about me. Why is Dad always sick and Mom isn't? She never goes to a doctor. Maybe because she doesn't believe she is, or WANT, to be sick. Dad just focuses on being sick, and how much medical treatment he can get.
I do not know what my views are called relative to Alternative Medicine, but I am sure it is probably part of it.
I respect your views. Given the responses on this thread, many other posters do as well. We are certainly not trying to tell other what to do, but PLEASE you medical professionals, RESPECT our rights and views as as adults.
Just checked in with my friend who was so influential on my alt path healing. She's about 7 yrs younger than me and going thru a back/hip issue and has NO mindset to do any kind of surgery. It's been a set back for her and me too and I had the hip replacement.
She's of the belief that the body is smart and heals itself. All these numbers we are today, who knows....
So much of what we are is what we eat and also what we stress about...
She has no care about the cholesterol issue and would never take a statin even thou she ended up with afib a few years ago, but now believes it's all due to magnesium deficient, she's on top now. The heart MD's wanted her to start statins and she said no way.
Every time I look into one of the knee replacement groups and read some of the moaning and groaning, I get off and keep this knee going, I could end up worse as I understand it's a tough rehab/recovery.
And on the data and fact info, it's forever changing...
Last edited by jaminhealth; 07-12-2018 at 05:21 PM..
Perhaps you’d like to stay on topic? Other then in the context of cervical cancer, HPV was not something that people were worried about and even within the context of cervical cancer, Pap smears have been a known and extremely effective tool of prevention. The fear over HPV began with the introduction of the vaccine. The fear has ramped up due to the fact that many parents remain skeptical of this vaccine that should be making the manufacturer more money. The “Did You Know” campaign has been controversial due to it’s reliance on parental guilt to sell more vaccines.
In the context of HPV related cancers in other parts of the body, they have always been extremely rare. They were extremely rare before the vaccine and they are extremely rare now. Smoking,alcohol use, unprotected vaginal, anal and oral sex with multiple partners are all extremely significant risk factors in HPV related cancers. The vast majority of people get HPV and the vast majority also are able to clear it from their bodies with zero intervention. Diet even plays a role.
This particular virus is something that people used to not worry so much about other then using condoms to prevent all STI’s and getting paps, now that the drug companies have made a vaccine, it’s suddenly a major health threat. That is disease mongering and that is exactly what this thread is about. Once a drug is available, the disease or illness that once was not seen as a major threat is suddenly something to fear.
suzy answered this quite well, and I am just going to add some of my own take, and reiterate some of what she said that I consider important to repeat.
Pap smears in and of themselves don't prevent anything. Paps are "early detection". That's not just semantics either. Nothing is prevented by having your cervix scraped. If your pap is abnormal, you have to do all the follow up testing and treatment.
HPV related cancers are hardly "extremely rare" outside the cervix. In fact, as smoking has decreased, the percentage of head and neck cancers caused by HPV has increased as the percentage caused by smoking has decreased. Nobody can choose to clear an HPV infection. It either clears or it doesn't. As far as this multiple partner issue, many young women get infected on their first sexual encounter.
Your logic is backwards. For one thing, we didn't know until fairly recently that HPV was the cause even of cervical cancer. The evidence became more clear during the 1990s. HPV: the whole story, warts and all - Cancer Research UK - Science blog
That's why we "worry" more about it now.
This Wiki article has some good information, and lots of references. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_...irus_infection
Re: head and neck cancer, from this link- "Sexually transmitted forms of HPV account for about 25% of cancers of the mouth and upper throat (the oropharynx)." This is no one's definition of "extremely rare". More:"Oral infection with several types of HPV, in particular type 16, have been found to be associated with HPV-positive oropharyngeal cancer, a form of head and neck cancer. This association is independent of tobacco and alcohol use.[58] In the United States, HPV is expected to replace tobacco as the main causal agent for oral cancer, and the number of newly diagnosed, HPV-associated head and neck cancers is expected to surpass that of cervical cancer cases by 2020."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth
Amen....I don't know I've had it almost 80 yrs and no HPV vaccine...and I ain't been a nun.
TMI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
No Suzy, I don’t care to control how people have sex. Education is key. People can choose to take whatever preventative measures that suit them, or not. You don’t however see commercials about how to prevent, beyond vaccine commercials because there’s no money to be made in eating healthy, not smoking or drinking alcohol, using condoms, being monagomous, etc. Not a whole lot of money in pap screenings either, although they are important and it would be nice to see them encouraged in ways that reach bigger markets because there is zero doubt about their effectiveness in preventing cervical cancer.
Actually, the number is more like 31,000 HPV associated cancers per year. Keep in mind once again that people who smoke, people who consume alcohol are at a MUCH higher risk of developing HPV associated cancer, as are people with HIV. Also keep in mind that those rates would drop further if we had 100% compliance with regular Pap smears. If HPV was the only factor involved in cancer and people were unable to clear it from their bodies via their own immune system, then 90% of the population would get cancer. That’s not the case. https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cases.htm
While there was a reasonable level of concern over HPV prior to the vaccine, there was not hysteria over it.
You're looking for some sort of PSA I guess. There are PSAs about smoking from time to time. Why don't you go develop some for some of these other topics and pitch them to the networks? There have been many PSAs for pap smears over time. My Google search found one from 1972 with Joan Crawford.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp5AW56GTSw
I do think by now virtually all women know about pap smears. Public health people are constantly working to get more women to get them.
The CDC says 41,000 HPV related cancers annually. You're off by about 33%. To reiterate, Pap smears don't prevent anything, the cancer has to already be present for the Pap to pick it up. Plus, they're only good for cervical cancer, there is no screening test for any of the other types of HPV cancers. When you have figured out how people can will their bodies to clear HPV, you can market that. https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/index.htm
Your link is from data from 2009 to 2013. My link uses data from 2010 to 2014. Different time intervals were covered. Regardless, it is still tens of thousands of new cases per year. HPV associated cancers at sites other than the female cervix are not rare, which you claimed earlier.
Rare in proportion to the population and not all of the population is at the same level of risk. If your link is newer, don’t you find it strange that the rates are going up even though more people are getting the vaccine????
Quote:
Pap smears pick up cancers in early stages when they may be curable; they do not prevent them. Pap smears are not perfect, having both false positives and false negatives, and the evaluation of abnormal smears involves procedures that are painful, expensive, and have potential complications. I honestly cannot understand how you can cling to the idea that treating cervical abnormalities is better than preventing them in the first place.
Pap smears detect precancerous changes in the cervical cells. When detected early, this is highly treatable. Hence the reason Pap smears have been so successful in majorly dropping the rate of cervical cancer. There have been a few campaigns to encourage screenings, but nothing on the level that we’ve seen via Merk’s commercials which even held spots in the prime advertising time, the Super Bowl.
Quote:
Your Utopia in which everyone is monogamous, no one smokes or drinks alcohol, and no one has anal or oral sex is never going to happen.
Nope. It’s about education, choice and risk.
Quote:
No one says that HPV is the only factor in cancer, but for many cancers it is a necessary factor: No high risk HPV = no cancer, no matter what other risk factors you have.
Right, HPV is definitely not the only factor in HPV associated cancers. Other factors such as smoking, drinking, etc. increase the risk dramatically. 90% of the population will clear HPV from their bodies via their immune systems.
Quote:
There is no hysteria over HPV now. There is a safe, highly effective vaccine to prevent the majority of infections associated with cancer.
The media campaign used fear and guilt. There have been attempts, at least one successful making HPV vaccines mandatory for school aged kids. Considering you can’t catch HPV inside of the school, it seems hysterical and market driven rather then health driven. Hysteria.
Quote:
By the way, cervical HPV testing is replacing the Pap smear. In fact, women who have had the vaccine need fewer Pap smears, just to cover the possibility of acquiring one of the rarer strains that can cause cancer and are not covered by the vaccine.
I think it’s wise to both test for HPV and continue with regular paps but time will tell if this new method of only screening for HPV will be successful.
Quote:
Your thesis that the HPV vaccine was developed only to sell vaccine for an "invented" disease is false.
Clearly you haven’t been reading what I’ve been writing. HPV is a real virus but the hysteria over it didn’t start until the vaccine was close to market. Yes, people talked about safe sex and pap screening in regards to all STI’s but not even close to the level things have gotten once the vaccine was ready for sale. The ads are all about fear mongering as are the attempts, both failed and successfull, to make this vaccine a part of the schedule for being able to attend school are indicators that the mass fear of the illness came after the drug, not the other way around.
Wow, Katarina! A PSA from 1972 which calmly reminds women to get cervical cancer screenings vs a modern day commercial which aired during the Super Bowl using guilt as a tactic to convince parents into getting a vaccine. I can totally see now that the promotion of paps is equal to the promotion of this vaccine. /sarcasm.
Last edited by MissTerri; 07-12-2018 at 06:01 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ten years your junior. Haven't had even a Pap test, or a personal doctor, since my OB and was pregnant in 1984. Coming of age in the throws of Sex, Drugs, and Rock N Rock. 
