Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: 'Is curing patients a sustainable business model?' (enemy, program)

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by gguerra

Ahh, this tells me everything and I don't watch that much. When I do watch it's nothing but pharma ads NON-STOP!

Granted your thread was derailed by 34 pages of nonsense from Pro/Anti-Vaccine crowd, but you still haven't proven your claim that pharmaceutical companies "invent diseases."

[Middletwin]

Originally Posted by suzy_q2010

Do you have peer reviewed research that contradicts the material in the links I have given? If so, please provide it. Declaring that the article's information is not true based on which page of a Google search you find it is just weird logic.

Sexually active adolescents tend to be serially monogamous. Rarely does their first partner become their only lifetime partner.

The constipation due to opioid use is real and resistant to the common treatments. It is not "made up".



There is no medical reason not to vaccinate someone over the age of 26 if the patient and doctor decide it would be beneficial for the individual patient. What is at stake with changing the age limit is insurance coverage.

Why shouldn't the company make money off of it?



That's a hoot that you think the oral polio vaccine is the safest form. I mean rolling in the floor funny. Do you know why the oral vaccine is no longer used in the US? It is because the live vaccine can rarely cause polio. There are now cases of polio due to the oral vaccine virus in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. The injection is safer.

Vaccines are given by injection because it is safe and effective to give them that way.

No, researchers have not "long known" that aluminum causes Alzheimer's disease.

https://www.alz.org/alzheimers-demen...zheimers/myths

"Myth 4: Drinking out of aluminum cans or cooking in aluminum pots and pans can lead to Alzheimer’s disease.
Reality: During the 1960s and 1970s, aluminum emerged as a possible suspect in Alzheimer’s. This suspicion led to concern about exposure to aluminum through everyday sources such as pots and pans, beverage cans, antacids and antiperspirants. Since then, studies have failed to confirm any role for aluminum in causing Alzheimer’s. Experts today focus on other areas of research, and few believe that everyday sources of aluminum pose any threat."

Your other antivax myths are debunked here:

https://www.verywellfamily.com/anti-...mation-2633730

By the way, there are 19 vaccines on the schedule for birth to 18 years, not 36.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedul...dolescent.html



Saying that we should be more concerned about vehicle accidents than HPV associated cancer is like saying we should be more concerned about motor vehicle accidents than drownings. There are only about 3500 drownings in the US annually. Are they not something to be concerned about, too?

Then there is the pesky fact that cervical cancers are not the only cancers caused by HPV. Thousands per year happen to males, which is why boys need to be vaccinated, too. There are no screening tests for the cancers males get.

No, the HPV vaccine does not "become(s) ineffective after 6-10 years". We now know it works at least 10 years, with no evidence that immunity is beginning to wane at that time.

It would be great if adolescents were virgins and only had sex with another virgin. The problem is they change partners frequently, and there is only one encounter where both partners are virgins. After that, all bets are off. Girls often have partners that are older and more sexually experienced than they are.

If every HPV infection cleared without doing any long term damage there would be no need for the vaccine, but 90% is not 100%, and the 10% who cannot clear the virus can get into trouble - and we have no way to predict who will not be able to clear the virus. Therefore, everyone with no medical contraindications to taking the vaccine and is eligible to get it should do so.

You know very well that a report to VAERS is not proof that a vaccine causes anything. Kat has shown you that every death reported is investigated. None so far can be blamed on the vaccine. For two, not enough information was given to make a determination. However, other monitoring has not found a single death that can be attributed to the HPV vaccine.

No one will make you vaccinate if you do not want to do so. For most vaccine preventable diseases you can hide in the herd. Herd immunity is even developing for the vaccine strains of HPV. However, you should really encourage other people to vaccinate in order to keep herd immunity strong. Even "Dr. Bob" Sears has advised parents of his patients not to tell friends and family they do not vaccinate.



However, doctors know about it and advise dietary changes to prevent heart disease.



You introduced the vaccine topic. In one sentence you say it is not a vaccine debate, then in the next you use the word vaccine twice. You made it a vaccine debate and have participated in the debate.

The vaccine has been marketed aggressively, but that does not mean that the disease it prevents is invented, which is the thesis of the OP, remember. If the vaccine did not do what it does (protect against HPV, now 9 cancer causing strains, with almost 100% effectiveness), there would be nothing to market. As usual, the only way you can advance your anti-mandate stance is to try to discredit vaccines that you personally do not want to see mandates for. Face it. People who do not want to use the HPV vaccine are the ones who are fearmongering, by claiming it causes serious adverse effects and deaths, when monitoring using appropriate epidemiologic methods have shown no serious adverse effects. Sore arms, yes. Fainting, yes. The sore arms get better and fainting can be prevented by simply having the patient lie down for a while. If the vaccine is given before age 14, only two doses are needed, not three. That's one less sore arm and one less opportunity to faint.



UpToDate is not a "medical database". It is an education service.

You used a quotation without providing the source. Care to provide it?

What does UpToDate say about the vaccine:

https://www.uptodate.com/contents/hu...-the-basics#H7


"HPV VACCINE SIDE EFFECTS AND PRECAUTIONS

The HPV vaccine may cause mild redness, tenderness, or swelling near the injection site. There is no thimerosal (a mercury derivative used as a preservative) in the HPV vaccine. There may be an increased risk of passing out after an injection of HPV vaccine, so it is a good idea not to stand up too soon after getting the vaccine.

The vaccine is not currently recommended during pregnancy, although there are no known risks to a fetus if the vaccine is given.

Despite concerns about safety based on anecdotal reports, large studies have not confirmed major health risks of these vaccines. Most experts believe that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh its risks [3,4]."

It looks as if the material in your quote was taken from a product insert. From the Gardasil 9 insert:

"Because these events were reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not possible to reliably estimate their frequency or to establish a causal relationship to vaccine exposure. The following adverse experiences have been spontaneously reported during post-approval use of GARDASIL and may also be seen in post-marketing experience with GARDASIL 9:

Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders: Pulmonary embolus.

Gastrointestinal disorders: Nausea, pancreatitis, vomiting.

Nervous system disorders: ... Guillain-Barré syndrome ... seizures, syncope (including syncope associated with tonic-clonic movements and other seizure-like activity) sometimes resulting in falling with injury

Vascular disorders: Deep venous thrombosis"

Note that appendicitis is not even on the list, and there is no plausible mechanism for an HPV vaccine to cause it.

The package insert is a legal document. Every single condition reported in studies conducted by the manufacturer will be listed, whether the vaccine caused it or not.

Measles and Mumps are diseases. They're real.

Also real, are diarreah, constipation, dysmennoreah and melancholy. But diseases they are not. In fact, the later two were renamed by pharma not the medical establishment. The reason for renaming something is to prevent being sued, similar to advertising deliberately misspelling words of their products.

Birth defects were the tragedy of DES. Similarly, we don't know the fallout of HPV vaccines on women and their offspring, just stats spewed by self-interested parties. A pregnant woman with a female baby, manufactures the eggs in that baby. That baby grows up and becomes a mother. Her eggs may have been exposed to the drugs of the grandmother as SHE manufactured
them in utero. On the basis, of this, one should look at their lifestyle and decide if an hpv vaccine is for them, not parents of a 12 year old girl.5

The nice thing about these forums, is reading others experiences, opinions because articles on the internet are just the ones, marketers want people to see.

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by jaminhealth

Levels on everything change all the time. and there is high, low, mid "normal"...I find this so with potassium too as my levels come in on the low end, and when I take extra high potassium foods or some 99mg tabs, I get more energy. I've been studying this world of supplements and better health for over 25 yrs, and it all started after menopause. I'm 80 soon....

Oh everything for that matter changes all the time, blood pressure, the cholesterol game...all of it.

They do. Many vary with the time of day, and day to day. Not even to mention variations with testing in any lab and also as compared to other labs.

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness

No. A very strong immune system and no exposure to the disease will prevent anyone from getting it.

You can't get an infectious disease without exposure. Strong or weak immune system.

[randomparent]

Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness

No. A very strong immune system and no exposure to the disease will prevent anyone from getting it.

What you want is an effective immune system, not a strong immune system. Let me tell you from firsthand experience that a "strong" immune system can wreak havoc.

[Rocko20]

If you want outrage look no further than nutritional supplements, they don’t even need FDA approval.

You could literally sell some snake oil as a nutritional supplement, market it with big name celebrities, and just sit back and count money.

[Floorist]

Originally Posted by Rocko20

If you want outrage look no further than nutritional supplements, they don’t even need FDA approval.

You could literally sell some snake oil as a nutritional supplement, market it with big name celebrities, and just sit back and count money.

And they do.

[suzy_q2010]

Originally Posted by Middletwin

Measles and Mumps are diseases. They're real.

Also real, are diarreah, constipation, dysmennoreah and melancholy. But diseases they are not. In fact, the later two were renamed by pharma not the medical establishment. The reason for renaming something is to prevent being sued, similar to advertising deliberately misspelling words of their products.

Birth defects were the tragedy of DES. Similarly, we don't know the fallout of HPV vaccines on women and their offspring, just stats spewed by self-interested parties. A pregnant woman with a female baby, manufactures the eggs in that baby. That baby grows up and becomes a mother. Her eggs may have been exposed to the drugs of the grandmother as SHE manufactured
them in utero. On the basis, of this, one should look at their lifestyle and decide if an hpv vaccine is for them, not parents of a 12 year old girl.5

The nice thing about these forums, is reading others experiences, opinions because articles on the internet are just the ones, marketers want people to see.

Dysmenorrhea was not renamed by "pharma." The person who told you that is flat out wrong, and having had it explained to you why it is wrong you still cling to the idea. Dysmenorrhea means painful menstrual periods. It is not the same as premenstrual syndrome, and women with menstrual pain may or may not also have premenstrual syndrome. It may not be a disease, but it causes many women severe distress, and they welcome treatment for it. It is not something invented for the sake of prescribing a medication for it.

Premenstrual syndrome is a collection of symptoms that some women have before their menstrual periods. They may or may not also have dysmenorrlea. For some women the symptoms are mild and they may not want any treatment for it. For others it can be distressing, and they welcome help with the symptoms. However, premestrual syndrome was described first and treatment for it came afterward, so it was not invented just in order to sell medication.

Melancholy is sadness. By itself it is a normal human emotion. Most of us do not expect to take medication if a life experience makes us sad. However, melancholy can be one of the symptoms of depression. Frankly, people who think major depression is an invented disease should thank whatever deity they believe in that they do not have it. It is not just a little sadness, and it can be lethal.

The key word is "distressing". Distress is what leads to researchers coming up with treatments, and there are plenty of distressing conditions for them to develop drugs for, with no need to "invent" nonexistent ones.

How could "renaming something" or misspelling a word in an advertisement prevent a lawsuit?

You can invent whatever nonsense you want to about HPV vaccines affecting eggs. There is no evidence that such an effect happens. The evidence for the safety and effectiveness of HPV vaccine comes from around the world, not just the company that makes it. To be most effective it needs to be given before any sexual activity happens. That is why it is given to adolescents.

How do you propose that "marketers" prevent you from finding information on the internet?

[gguerra]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Granted your thread was derailed by 34 pages of nonsense from Pro/Anti-Vaccine crowd, but you still haven't proven your claim that pharmaceutical companies "invent diseases."

Not my claim, try reading the article from the link I posted. It contains plenty of credible information. Then you can come back with a valid argument. Otherwise it's just your opinion.

[suzy_q2010]

Originally Posted by gguerra

Not my claim, try reading the article from the link I posted. I'm just the messenger.

If it's not your claim, why did you post it? Either support it or refute it.