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Old 04-15-2018, 08:30 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,469,571 times
Reputation: 18520

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aridon View Post
The 1.4T dollars is paid over 30+ years. Many times it isn't even paid because people die early and don't have a spouse or don't elect to have them added as a beneficiary since it reduces benefits.

So while the big scary numbers get people's attention, reality is those yearly numbers are much more reasonable but you don't see them quoted right? Why? Because then the article wouldn't be scary.

Not to say there aren't issues with certain pension plans. There will be changes for retirees, especially in states that are becoming less and less relevant as their old financial base continues to bleed away. 100% true. However for the most part, the actual impact will be quite small. Hell, we just pissed away 1.4T on some mostly useless tax cuts. How much have we spent on our nearly 2 decades in Afghanistan? Iraq war?

Yeah.
The house of cards will fall in dramatic fashion.
Local governments and even the federal government, could learn a thing or two from the way things are handled in the Galveston TX. community government services and retirement. They don't even have SS withheld from their pay, because their retirement package is that good and so solvent.
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,578,285 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
It is time to stop government employees getting rich off the taxpayer. Many retire with full benefits after twenty years at 40, then get another government job, put in another twenty then get another retirement check after that. Double, and triple dipping. The person who suffers as always is the productive, private sector tax payer.
That would be the private sector who elects the people who make state/ county/ municipal law.
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:02 AM
 
45,120 posts, read 26,284,895 times
Reputation: 24845
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
That would be the private sector who elects the people who make state/ county/ municipal law.
Ah the ole "will of the people" canard

https://mises.org/wire/will-people-myth
Quote:
This has always been a tenuous claim in every way, of course. Within the American electoral system, there is no reason to assume that a vote for candidate X is an affirmative vote for candidate X's policy agenda. The voter's intent may be to simply choose a less-bad option with the intent of voting against Candidate Y. In fact, it is impossible to know the intent of the voters without interviewing every single one of them. And even then, the voters themselves may not remember why they voted the way or they did, or may simply lie about their intentions.

Indeed, as recent polling data from Pew shows, voters routinely report voting against other candidates as a primary motivation, rather than voting for the chosen candidate.

Even if a voter is voting for Candidate Y, it is impossible to know which aspects of that candidate's agenda meet the approval of the voters voting for that candidate.
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,173 posts, read 18,460,701 times
Reputation: 25745
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
That would be the private sector who elects the people who make state/ county/ municipal law.
Bureaucrats aren't elected, and yes many politicians are CORRUPT. We vote for different ones that say they aren't corrupt, and the system CORRUPTS THEM. The game is rigged.
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,578,285 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
as of now, but neither of us know if that will last.

Feds will have to choose between allowing it, or bailing out large state like Illinois, which wil quickly see NJ & Ct funds insolvent, too.
Unlike the private sector, municipalities and school districts, Federal Law does not permit a state to file bankruptcy. This could change at some future date and if it did, it would eventually end up in SCOTUS’ lap.

States have the ability to impose/ increase taxes. As it relates to my state, the state constitution ensures that public pensions would not be impacted by insolvency/ bankruptcy. There is a strong legal position that an amendment to the state constitution would not impact accrued public pension benefits.

The state constitution also specifies a flat rate income tax.
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,578,285 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
The house of cards will fall in dramatic fashion.
Local governments and even the federal government, could learn a thing or two from the way things are handled in the Galveston TX. community government services and retirement. They don't even have SS withheld from their pay, because their retirement package is that good and so solvent.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...d-for-17-years
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:01 AM
 
10,513 posts, read 5,135,317 times
Reputation: 14056
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Unlike the private sector, states cannot file for bankruptcy.
Correct -- 11th amendment. States have "sovereign immunity" from federal bankruptcy court.

Instead what states do is go into default (several states did so in the early 1840's). Bondholders don't get paid and lose their investments. The state's credit rating goes to junk or below. Unlike independent countries, a state cannot devalue their currency -- but if a number of states defaulted on their debts, the US credit rating as a whole and the value of the US dollar would be dragged downward. Big banks and Wall Street would put tremendous pressure on the Feds to bail out the states.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
7,625 posts, read 4,543,947 times
Reputation: 12681
What's the American translation of let them eat cake?
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:37 PM
 
12,003 posts, read 11,843,411 times
Reputation: 22682
Since the other thread about pension problems in Kentucky got closed due to non-Kentuckians hijacking it, I'd like to make clear contrary to another poster's accusation, that while I worked for and with kids for 28 years, I have no children of my own, yet I pay school and other public service taxes without complaint, as I know the services they fund are in everyone's benefit.

I'd also like to clarify that raising taxes on individuals in order to adequately fund Kentucky's ailing teacher retirement and public employees retirement systems is not a popular idea here - instead, allowing casino gambling has been proposed, as presently many Kentuckians cross over into Indiana or Tennessee to spend their gambling dollars. Legalization of hemp is also proposed, with appropriate taxation of hemp products. Industrial hemp was the number one agricultural product of Kentucky 150 years ago, when it was grown for rope - it grows very well here and hemp does not equate to marijuana.

Or simply determining where the money went, and retrieving it would be a welcome reform.

I hope this thread remains open, and is not hijacked by those who don't have a dog in the fight but who cannot resist using this topic to both promote their own political views and attack those of us who are directly affected by pension issues in our home states.
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