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I was leaning McCain and totally jumped ship with Palin. I was appalled. Talk about identity politics. It was an attempt to get the woman vote. Why did they have to pick someone so empty in the head and unprepared.
I'd opine that the critical turning-point was 1994, with Newt Gingrich's "revolution" in Congress. This was the beginning of broad acceptance of the idea, that one's political opponents are not merely opponents, but outright enemies; and the opposing view is not merely incorrect, but idiotic and vile. A concomitant idea, was vilification of "the elites", and stark division of the country into Heartland and Coasts, with Heartland = good, Coasts = bad.
Going back further, we can point to one Richard M. Nixon. His influence morphed the Republican party from that of well-heeled, well-traveled, wealthy aristocrats, to - well, whatever it is now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabel Pantoja
Religious Conservatives have always existed and will probably continue to exist until the end the of times...
Maybe so, but until recently, religious conservatives would have rallied around a Mike Pence, or Rick Santorum, or Mike Huckabee, or at worst a Pat Buchanan. None of these persons are in my opinion suited to the Presidency, but all of them are greatly referable to what we currently have. What is so shocking in the present time, is how religious conservatives have embraced a candidate (and now president) who in behavior, statements and values is in so many aspects so unlike them. What appeals to them, evidently, is that he has the "right" hatreds, and is preternaturally gifted in bashing the common enemy, which is to say the aforementioned "elites".
That said, Palin and Trump are both symptoms - not causes. The real causes are that certain transformations in society over the past 50 years don't particularly agree with a swath of the voting-public.
I'd opine that the critical turning-point was 1994, with Newt Gingrich's "revolution" in Congress. This was the beginning of broad acceptance of the idea, that one's political opponents are not merely opponents, but outright enemies; and the opposing view is not merely incorrect, but idiotic and vile. A concomitant idea, was vilification of "the elites", and stark division of the country into Heartland and Coasts, with Heartland = good, Coasts = bad.
Going back further, we can point to one Richard M. Nixon. His influence morphed the Republican party from that of well-heeled, well-traveled, wealthy aristocrats, to - well, whatever it is now.
Maybe so, but until recently, religious conservatives would have rallied around a Mike Pence, or Rick Santorum, or Mike Huckabee, or at worst a Pat Buchanan. None of these persons are in my opinion suited to the Presidency, but all of them are greatly referable to what we currently have. What is so shocking in the present time, is how religious conservatives have embraced a candidate (and now president) who in behavior, statements and values is in so many aspects so unlike them. What appeals to them, evidently, is that he has the "right" hatreds, and is preternaturally gifted in bashing the common enemy, which is to say the aforementioned "elites".
That said, Palin and Trump are both symptoms - not causes. The real causes are that certain transformations in society over the past 50 years don't particularly agree with a swath of the voting-public.
Astute
The idea that the GOP would listen to Newt Gingrich when he left his dying wife in hospital to continue an affair with his 3rd wife who is now ambassador to the Vatican as payoff for his approval of Trump just boggles my small town Texas mind...
Some people have joined the dark side because they really don't believe in the dark side's power
I am not a Christian but am ethical and think they have lost their moral compass...
They (evangelicals) are turning into the American Taliban--
The Handmaid's Tale beckons...
Astute The idea that the GOP would listen to Newt Gingrich when he left his dying wife in hospital to continue an affair with his 3rd wife who is now ambassador to the Vatican as payoff for his approval of Trump just boggles my small town Texas mind...
Some people have joined the dark side because they really don't believe in the dark side's power
I am not a Christian but am ethical and think they have lost their moral compass...
They (evangelicals) are turning into the American Taliban--
The Handmaid's Tale beckons...
Steve Bannon directed a documentary, The Undefeated, about Sarah Palin many years ago that I found very interesting. All I knew was what mainstream media spoonfed the masses. The reality is very different. Palin had quite a remarkable career in Alaska that few know about. I can see why she was a threat to Dems at that time.
Morning Joe doesn't have Joe and Mika and the panel up there is discussing where the right went wrong--and the effect/influence of Palin as a reflection of how the GOP Republicans shifted from their bedrock and yet missed the moment
Interesting
Even if you don't normally follow that show you might want to check it out
It is intersting to see how they analyze a definite shift in GOP strategy
I did see it and I do think that McCain placing Palin on a pedestal caused a shift in the GOP to where people like her were seen as a valid choice instead of people on the fringe.
Note, I voted for McCain in the Republican primary in 2000. I wish he would have won in 2000. Back then IMO he was a respectable conservative.
After 2008 and him choosing Palin I lost a lot of respect for him because I felt he was pressured to pick her, even then by people within the party and him choosing her IMO was one of the reasons why he lost. She, Trump, and the TPers represent all that is negative in the GOP in regards to a position only based on populism, conspiracy, and racism. He tried to stand apart when people were bad mouthing and saying racist things about Obama in 2008. Note that I do remember many clips of him telling some crazy person that Obama wasn't born in Kenya and wasn't evil and wasn't the anti-Christ and I felt bad for him because I felt he was the only person in the GOP at the time who made any sense on the national stage but he was surrounded by all these nuts who he needed their support.
So yes, IMO he did cause a shift with the choice of Palin. She became a celebrity due to being chosen as his running mate. She, like Trump was/is a reality TV star. The GOP has been turned into a populist, conspiracy laden, prejudiced, anti-intellectual controlled party because of his choices in 2008.
I feel bad for him because I bet he regrets it.
I also feel bad that the GOP is no longer the GOP that it was when he first got into politics.
IMO they are not as repectable or capable of working toward a common good or any common ground, both within the warring factions of the party itself and especially not with the opposing party and this idea - compromise - is a central tenet of our country's politics for much of its existence. It being lost IMO is not a good thing.
I'm hoping that Trump causes the GOP to put their fringe back on the fringes. I agree with another poster, I believe moneil that I am also perturbed (wouldn't call it afraid though) of the religious right - I think they want to control everyone's lives and that most of the religious right belongs to the populist, prejudice, conspiracy laden, anti-intellectual wing of the party.
That said, I know a lot of more traditional conservatives who are Republicans and I don't view Republicans as all bad or even worse than Democrats, but I do believe that traditional Republicans and conservatives are being too passive. They believe, like McCain that rational thought will eventually triumph, but IMO it will not be triumphant unless someone who is a traditional conservatives gets a coalition together of other conservatives and speaks up against these crazy people in their party.
Similar to how the whole McCarthy-ism crap ended. Someone has to be the voice of reason amongst all these ridiculous comments and behavior and be brave.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 04-20-2018 at 08:10 AM..
I'd opine that the critical turning-point was 1994, with Newt Gingrich's "revolution" in Congress. This was the beginning of broad acceptance of the idea, that one's political opponents are not merely opponents, but outright enemies; and the opposing view is not merely incorrect, but idiotic and vile. A concomitant idea, was vilification of "the elites", and stark division of the country into Heartland and Coasts, with Heartland = good, Coasts = bad.
Going back further, we can point to one Richard M. Nixon. His influence morphed the Republican party from that of well-heeled, well-traveled, wealthy aristocrats, to - well, whatever it is now.
Maybe so, but until recently, religious conservatives would have rallied around a Mike Pence, or Rick Santorum, or Mike Huckabee, or at worst a Pat Buchanan. None of these persons are in my opinion suited to the Presidency, but all of them are greatly referable to what we currently have. What is so shocking in the present time, is how religious conservatives have embraced a candidate (and now president) who in behavior, statements and values is in so many aspects so unlike them. What appeals to them, evidently, is that he has the "right" hatreds, and is preternaturally gifted in bashing the common enemy, which is to say the aforementioned "elites".
That said, Palin and Trump are both symptoms - not causes. The real causes are that certain transformations in society over the past 50 years don't particularly agree with a swath of the voting-public.
Note, I also agree with the bold. The 1990s era Republicans are what started all of this, but IMO Palin being in the spotlight due to McCain pushed the party over the edge.
On Nixon, I also do believe he is at play in the GOP but I don't think that he changed the party all that much and that his personal issues are no reflection on the party of his era.
I honestly believe that if he'd not had so many person issues and had a successful presidency, that they would still be in the same predicament today politically, primarily based on the sociological shift that occurred in the 1960s, before Nixon's presidency in regards to the CRM and other acts that were passed which caused a lot of racial animosity in the party and a shift away from overt racism/prejudice to one of "personal" issues of poor people and minorities. This would still have occurred and so the religious right and the nuttier conservatives IMO still would have ascended to the throne so to speak for the GOP during the 1990s following the end of the Reagan Era (the end of the era of traditional, and what can be deemed more "progressive" conservatism).
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See what I mean?
