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Old 04-26-2018, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,941 posts, read 13,188,136 times
Reputation: 19186

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusTeling View Post
I'm given to believe that the Italian (Bambino Gesu Children’s Hospital) that's ready to take Alfie is first class. And the UK Establishment's efforts to prevent him from getting there are focused on keeping him in an British one, the standards and reputation of which are mediocre. Long live Alfie Evans!
The Child is terminally ill, and Alder Hay is one of the finest childrens hospitals in the entire world.

Alder Hey in the Park | Alder Hey Children's Hospital: About Us

Alder Hey in the Park | Alder Hey Children's Hospital: Research

Alder Hey Children's Charity: Home

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Old 04-26-2018, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
10,062 posts, read 12,733,796 times
Reputation: 7168
Sad situation.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/0...hames-britain/
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,941 posts, read 13,188,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusTeling View Post
Isn't that easy to say
And, ^, according to whose 'expert' (mis?-)diagnosis?
According to Professor Cross and other experts, and no one is refuting the diagnosis ir the fact the child is terminally ill. The parents are even in full agreement with Professor Cross, the question before the Courts is where would the child receive the best and most appriopriate palliative end of life care in the chidrens hospital or could the parents take him home or to a hospice to die.

Alfie Evans: Parents and doctors to discuss sending toddler home - BBC News

In terms of the Vatican the Courts have already made the decision that it would not be in the childs best interest to go to the Vatican.

Whilst in terms of Alder Hey it is a superb state of the art hospital, which is currently building a further superb research centre.
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,452 posts, read 4,718,174 times
Reputation: 15354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Nohing you have said has made the law incorrect.

US Courts have made exactly the same dcisions in cases such as Israel Stinson, and numerous others.

After court rules against parents, toddler is taken off life support - Los Angeles Times

As for the Catholic Church, Christopher Hitchens destroyed in a memorable speech.
That the government shouldn't be denying people the right to seek their own care or care for their own children is correct no matter how many links you throw at me or laws you quote.
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,941 posts, read 13,188,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully View Post
That the government shouldn't be denying people the right to seek their own care or care for their own children is correct no matter how many links you throw at me or laws you quote.
Your courts made exactly the same decision and have done in the past, see the case and link I provided.

In terms of the Courts such issues are rare and usually involve the right to switch off a life support machine rather than to keep one going in a terminal illness situation. The Courts also intervcene in most countries in relation to the care of children in areas such as cxhild protection and divorce, whilst religions can also be overruled in terms of emergency treatments. For instance Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in blood transfusions, but in such cases the child also has rights, despite his parents religous views.

The Lawsw are there to protect all parties, and the on-going dialogue between the parents and hospital may result in the child, who is terminally ill being allowed to go home to die and the hospital and other services providing support to allow this.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Virginia
1,743 posts, read 984,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Under International, European and UK Law the childs welfare must come first and it is what is best for the child and not the parents, and everyone has rights not just the parents.
Do you even hear yourself?
Best for the child?

You, or maybe someone else is shouting from the rooftops that the child is brain-dead!
Nothing, it is claimed, can be done!

So .....?
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,452 posts, read 4,718,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Your courts made exactly the same decision and have done in the past, see the case and link I provided.
US courts make lots of decisions I disagree with. You can't link or quote me in to changing my mind on this fundamental issue, and in America I am far from alone in my perspective, despite what some courts may say.


If most British people are like you and think the courts are infallible and the government is not to be questioned, then that would explain a lot of the differences between our two nations.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,941 posts, read 13,188,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully View Post
US courts make lots of decisions I disagree with. You can't link or quote me in to changing my mind on this fundamental issue, and in America I am far from alone in my perspective, despite what some courts may say.

If most British people are like you and think the courts are infallible and the government is not to be questioned, then that would explain a lot of the differences between our two nations.
I don't think courts and infalliable however they are the best system of protection we have in relation to the Rights of the Child and it should be noted that the British Courts are backed by the European Convention on Human Rights and European Courts as well as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights on the issue, both of which state that the welfare of the child must be paramount. The European Convenion on Human Rights was enshrined fully in to British Law in the 1998 Human Rights Act and the UK is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Courts quote both sources when ever they make such decisions as well as the 1989 Children's Act.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
10,062 posts, read 12,733,796 times
Reputation: 7168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Nohing you have said has made the law incorrect.

US Courts have made exactly the same dcisions in cases such as Israel Stinson, and numerous others.

After court rules against parents, toddler is taken off life support - Los Angeles Times

As for the Catholic Church, Christopher Hitchens destroyed in a memorable speech.

The Catholic Church has withstood more than Hitchens’ bigotry.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,941 posts, read 13,188,136 times
Reputation: 19186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
The Catholic Church has withstood more than Hitchens’ bigotry.
Shame we didn't have better child welfare laws in the past, given that police in Scotland recently found the bodies of 402 children in a mass grave at a Catholic Orphanage in Scotland. Some had clearly been beaten to death.

Bodies of 'hundreds' of children buried in mass grave - BBC News

Hundreds of Scottish orphanage children allegedly buried in mass grave - The Guardian (Oct 2017)

Bodies of 402 children discovered to be buried in mass grave near Scottish orphanage run by nuns - Scottish Daily Record (Sep 2017)

Another one from a few years ago in Tuam in Ireland.

Tuam mother and baby home 'chamber of horrors' - Irish PM - BBC News

Mass grave of 796 babies found in septic tank at Catholic orphanage - Belfast Telegraph

Tuam mother and baby home: Names of the 796 - The Irish Times

As for the Vatican's Bambino Gesù Hospital -

"Pope's hospital" put profits over children's health, AP says - CBS News

Vatican buried report showing 'Pope's hospital' cut corners to chase profits while children died - IB Times

Vatican embroiled in children safeguarding scandal at Bambino Gesu - New Europe

The last people who should be handed any child are the Catholic Church.

Last edited by Brave New World; 04-26-2018 at 10:01 AM..
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